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Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 12:01 PM
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Srila Prabhupada speaks on: The Great Soul
Prabhupada: With determination. Otherwise, satatam kirtayanto mam [Bg. 9.14]. Satatam means twenty-four hours. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. Adi 17.31]. Harer nama harer nama harer nama eva kevalam [Cc. Adi 17.21]. But that we cannot do. Therefore to keep drdha-vrata, we have fixed up a certain quantity. Chant that. Sankhya-purvaka-nama-gana-natibhih kalavasani-krtau. About the Gosvamis-sankhya-purvaka: "So many times." Not only chanting, also offering obeisances. Sankhya-purvaka-nama-gana-natibhih. Nati means pranati. "I shall offer obeisances hundred times." Gosvamis, they used to do that. Still in Radha-kunda, Vrndavana, you'll see many devotees. They offer, counting, flat, so many times. So we have to take some labor. It is not so easy thing that you realize (chuckling) God so easily. Sankhya-purvaka-nama-gana-natibhih kalavasani-krtau. The valuable time of human life should be utilized only for cultivating Krsna consciousness. That is perfect. No other business. Sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. That is sarva-dharman. But if you cannot do that, all right, make
minimum: "So many times I shall chant. So many times I shall offer obeisances." Make some drdha-vrata. Then gradually it will be successful.
Guest (5): (Bengali)
Prabhupada: Yes. Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna-twenty-four hours. Japa-tapa. Tapasya. Tapo divyam putraka yena suddhyed sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. Japa means tapa, tapasya. And that is drdha-vrata. Tapasa brahmacaryena [SB 6.1.13]. Tapasya begins with brahmacarya. There is no tapasya, there is no brahmacarya, there is no drdha-vrata, there is no understanding, and they are becoming guru. Just see these Europeans, Americans. Their life beginning was meat-eating. And they have given up everything. This is tapasya. And we shall eat everything, do everything... Yato mata tato patha. "Whatever I like, I do, and still a devotee." What is this nonsense? Jaya.
Guest (6): Visvasa first, faith strong.
Prabhupada: No, where is faith if we do not execute tapasya? Where is faith? Visvasa sudrdha niscaya. That is visvasa, the same thing. This is visvasa: "Krsna said this; I shall do." This is visvasa. And if you do not do anything, what Krsna says, where is visvasa? There is no visvasa. Krsna says, satatam kirtayanto mam: [Bg. 9.14] "Anyone who is chanting Me, Hare Krsna..." So Krsna says; I must do it. That is visvasa. If you do not do that, where is visvasa? What do you mean by visvasa? Visvasa means sudrdha niscaya. "Yes, Krsna has said. I shall do." That is visvasa. If you have no faith in the words of Krsna, where is your visvasa? What do you mean by visvasa? Hm?
Guest (6): Bhagavan's servant.
Prabhupada: Bhagavan is your servant. Whatever you like, you can do, and He'll serve you. You'll not serve Him. He will serve you. Is that visvasa? "Whatever nonsense I do, Krsna will support." Is that visvasa? Visvasa means "What Krsna says, I shall do." That is visvasa. That has been impressed at the modern age, that "Whatever I do, Krsna will accept it." Is it not? Do you mean visvasa means this, that "Whatever nonsense you do, Krsna will accept"? Do you mean visvasa means this? Then what is visvasa? Explain. "Whatever Krsna says, I will do," that is visvasa. Or "Whatever nonsense I do, Krsna will favor"? Which one visvasa? What do you mean...? Huh?
Guest (6): There is one pervading Supreme Soul.
Prabhupada: What is that pervading? What do you mean by that? Plain explain. What do you mean by visvasa? Explain.
Guest (6): Faith in God.
Prabhupada: Faith in God. Then hear what God says. That is... I am speaking that "What Krsna says, you do it." That is visvasa. And if you do otherwise, where is visvasa? Hm? Visvasa means... I say, "Mr. such and such, do this." If you have faith in me, you will do this. That is visvasa. And if you do otherwise, where is your visvasa? You have no faith in me. Now people have degraded so much that they think, "This is visvasa. Anything I accept as God is God." This visvasa is going on. "Any nonsen... [break] ...pravartate, iti matva bhajante mam budha bhava-samanvitah [Bg. 10.8]. Is it not? So if you take this, that Krsna is the beginning of everything -- iti matva -- by understanding this, if anyone engages himself in krsna-bhakti, bhajante mam, that is bhakti. Budha bhava-samanvitah. He has come immediately to the bhava stage. Means he's budhah. He is actual... He has actually understood the thing. So that is visvasa. In Caitanya-caritamrta it is said visvasa... Sraddha-sabde visvasa kahe sudrdha niscaya, krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya [Cc. Madhya 22.62]. Krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya. This is visvasa. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. I am thinking, "I have got so many other things. Simply why shall I surrender?" That is not visvasa. Visvasa means "Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam [Bg. 18.66]. I'll accept." Krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta. That is visvasa. Sudrdha niscaya. Sraddha-sabde visvasa kahe sudrdha niscaya, krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya. That is visvasa. That visvasa wanted, not that I manufacture something. It is useless. Moghasa mogha-karmano mogha-jnana vicetasah [Bg. 9.12]. That is hopeless. What Krsna says, if you believe firmly, then it is visvasa. Drdha-vrata. And execute, determination. Then you get the result. Sa mahatma sudurlabhah. Such mahatma is very rare. And nowadays mahatma means one who does not know anything about Krsna, speaks all nonsense. He is mahatma. "Because we stamp somebody, mahatma, therefore he is mahatma." Find out this verse, mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim [Bg. 9.13].
Satsvarupa:
"O son of Prtha, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible."
Prabhupada: This is mahatma. Is there any purport?
Satsvarupa: Yes. "In this verse the description of mahatma is clearly given. The first sign of the mahatma is that he is already situated in the divine nature. He is not under the control of material nature. And how is this effected? That is explained in the Seventh Chapter. One who surrenders unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna, at once becomes freed from the control of material nature. That is the qualification."
Prabhupada: Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti.
Satsvarupa: "One can become free from the control of material nature as soon as he surrenders his soul to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the preliminary formula. Being marginal potency, as soon as the living entity is freed from the control of material nature, he is put under the guidance of the spiritual nature. The guidance of the spiritual nature is called daivim prakrtim, divine nature. So when one is promoted in that way by surrendering to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one attains to the stage of a great soul, mahatma. The mahatma does not divert his attention to anything outside Krsna because he knows perfectly well that Krsna is the original Supreme Person, the cause of all causes. There is no doubt about it. Such a mahatma or great soul develops through association with other mahatmas, pure devotees. Pure devotees are not even attracted by Krsna's other features, such as the four-armed Maha-Visnu. They are simply attracted by the two-armed form of Krsna. Since they are not attracted to other features of Krsna, what to speak of the demigods, they are not concerned with any form of a demigod or of a human being. They only meditate upon Krsna in Krsna consciousness. They are always engaged in the unswerving service of the Lord in Krsna consciousness."
Prabhupada: Sa mahatma sudurlabhah. That is the... What do you think? What is your definition of mahatma?
Guest (1): Gita said, vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah [Bg. 7.19].
Prabhupada: Yes. Gita says, but what you say? Recently I went to Wardha, Mahatma Gandhi's asrama. Nobody is there. And they are worshiping Mahatma's lantern, and Mahatma's cadara. Not a single picture of Krsna. (chuckles) There is not a single picture of Krsna. And here it is said, bhajate mam ananya-bhak. This is going on. So read Bhagavad-gita As It Is. Learn. Everything is there. Make your life successful. That is our proposal. Come here. We have developed this center in good quarter. Discuss Bhagavad-gita and try to do what Krsna says. Make your life perfect. (Hindi) We are misguided. Misguided... (Hindi) Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gita: "This mahatma; this is God; this is function; this you have to do." Do it. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Four things anyone can do. A child can do.
First-class yogi -- one who is thinking of Krsna. (Hindi) There is no difficulty. Take Bhagavan prasada; chant Bhagavan's name; read Bhagavad-gita; try to understand. Very easy. What is the difficulty? Is there any difficulty? Hm? Do you think is there any difficulty? [break] ...Hindi.
Guest (7): (Hindi)
Prabhupada: (Hindi) ...asat-sanga-tyaga ei vaisnava-acara [Cc. Madhya 22.87]. You must give up the association of bad elements. And who is bad element? Asat eka stri-sangi krsna abhakta ara: One bad element is one who is too much attached to women, and the other bad element is who is not devotee of God. Give up their association. Then you will be steady. Mahat-sevam dvaram ahur vimukteh [SB 5.5.2]. If you actually associate with mahatmas, so that will open your door of liberation. Mahat-sevam dvaram ahur vimuktes tamo-dvaram yositam sangi-sangam. Those who are too much materially attached, if you associate with them, then you are going in the darkest region, not liberation, but in the darkness. Adanta-gobhir visatam tamisram [SB 7.5.30]. Those who are too much to material enjoyment -- they cannot control their senses -- they're going in the darkest region. Tamo-dvaram. Tamaso ma jyotir gamaya. This is Vedic instruction, "Don't go to the darkness; go to the light." Hare Krsna.
Satsvarupa: There is prasadam being served now.
Prabhupada: (Hindi) (end)
minimum: "So many times I shall chant. So many times I shall offer obeisances." Make some drdha-vrata. Then gradually it will be successful.
Guest (5): (Bengali)
Prabhupada: Yes. Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna-twenty-four hours. Japa-tapa. Tapasya. Tapo divyam putraka yena suddhyed sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. Japa means tapa, tapasya. And that is drdha-vrata. Tapasa brahmacaryena [SB 6.1.13]. Tapasya begins with brahmacarya. There is no tapasya, there is no brahmacarya, there is no drdha-vrata, there is no understanding, and they are becoming guru. Just see these Europeans, Americans. Their life beginning was meat-eating. And they have given up everything. This is tapasya. And we shall eat everything, do everything... Yato mata tato patha. "Whatever I like, I do, and still a devotee." What is this nonsense? Jaya.
Guest (6): Visvasa first, faith strong.
Prabhupada: No, where is faith if we do not execute tapasya? Where is faith? Visvasa sudrdha niscaya. That is visvasa, the same thing. This is visvasa: "Krsna said this; I shall do." This is visvasa. And if you do not do anything, what Krsna says, where is visvasa? There is no visvasa. Krsna says, satatam kirtayanto mam: [Bg. 9.14] "Anyone who is chanting Me, Hare Krsna..." So Krsna says; I must do it. That is visvasa. If you do not do that, where is visvasa? What do you mean by visvasa? Visvasa means sudrdha niscaya. "Yes, Krsna has said. I shall do." That is visvasa. If you have no faith in the words of Krsna, where is your visvasa? What do you mean by visvasa? Hm?
Guest (6): Bhagavan's servant.
Prabhupada: Bhagavan is your servant. Whatever you like, you can do, and He'll serve you. You'll not serve Him. He will serve you. Is that visvasa? "Whatever nonsense I do, Krsna will support." Is that visvasa? Visvasa means "What Krsna says, I shall do." That is visvasa. That has been impressed at the modern age, that "Whatever I do, Krsna will accept it." Is it not? Do you mean visvasa means this, that "Whatever nonsense you do, Krsna will accept"? Do you mean visvasa means this? Then what is visvasa? Explain. "Whatever Krsna says, I will do," that is visvasa. Or "Whatever nonsense I do, Krsna will favor"? Which one visvasa? What do you mean...? Huh?
Guest (6): There is one pervading Supreme Soul.
Prabhupada: What is that pervading? What do you mean by that? Plain explain. What do you mean by visvasa? Explain.
Guest (6): Faith in God.
Prabhupada: Faith in God. Then hear what God says. That is... I am speaking that "What Krsna says, you do it." That is visvasa. And if you do otherwise, where is visvasa? Hm? Visvasa means... I say, "Mr. such and such, do this." If you have faith in me, you will do this. That is visvasa. And if you do otherwise, where is your visvasa? You have no faith in me. Now people have degraded so much that they think, "This is visvasa. Anything I accept as God is God." This visvasa is going on. "Any nonsen... [break] ...pravartate, iti matva bhajante mam budha bhava-samanvitah [Bg. 10.8]. Is it not? So if you take this, that Krsna is the beginning of everything -- iti matva -- by understanding this, if anyone engages himself in krsna-bhakti, bhajante mam, that is bhakti. Budha bhava-samanvitah. He has come immediately to the bhava stage. Means he's budhah. He is actual... He has actually understood the thing. So that is visvasa. In Caitanya-caritamrta it is said visvasa... Sraddha-sabde visvasa kahe sudrdha niscaya, krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya [Cc. Madhya 22.62]. Krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya. This is visvasa. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. I am thinking, "I have got so many other things. Simply why shall I surrender?" That is not visvasa. Visvasa means "Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam [Bg. 18.66]. I'll accept." Krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta. That is visvasa. Sudrdha niscaya. Sraddha-sabde visvasa kahe sudrdha niscaya, krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya. That is visvasa. That visvasa wanted, not that I manufacture something. It is useless. Moghasa mogha-karmano mogha-jnana vicetasah [Bg. 9.12]. That is hopeless. What Krsna says, if you believe firmly, then it is visvasa. Drdha-vrata. And execute, determination. Then you get the result. Sa mahatma sudurlabhah. Such mahatma is very rare. And nowadays mahatma means one who does not know anything about Krsna, speaks all nonsense. He is mahatma. "Because we stamp somebody, mahatma, therefore he is mahatma." Find out this verse, mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim [Bg. 9.13].
Satsvarupa:
mahatmanas tu mam partha
daivim prakrtim asritah
bhajanty ananya-manaso
jnatva bhutadim avyayam
[Bg. 9.13]
"O son of Prtha, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible."
Prabhupada: This is mahatma. Is there any purport?
Satsvarupa: Yes. "In this verse the description of mahatma is clearly given. The first sign of the mahatma is that he is already situated in the divine nature. He is not under the control of material nature. And how is this effected? That is explained in the Seventh Chapter. One who surrenders unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna, at once becomes freed from the control of material nature. That is the qualification."
Prabhupada: Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti.
Satsvarupa: "One can become free from the control of material nature as soon as he surrenders his soul to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the preliminary formula. Being marginal potency, as soon as the living entity is freed from the control of material nature, he is put under the guidance of the spiritual nature. The guidance of the spiritual nature is called daivim prakrtim, divine nature. So when one is promoted in that way by surrendering to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one attains to the stage of a great soul, mahatma. The mahatma does not divert his attention to anything outside Krsna because he knows perfectly well that Krsna is the original Supreme Person, the cause of all causes. There is no doubt about it. Such a mahatma or great soul develops through association with other mahatmas, pure devotees. Pure devotees are not even attracted by Krsna's other features, such as the four-armed Maha-Visnu. They are simply attracted by the two-armed form of Krsna. Since they are not attracted to other features of Krsna, what to speak of the demigods, they are not concerned with any form of a demigod or of a human being. They only meditate upon Krsna in Krsna consciousness. They are always engaged in the unswerving service of the Lord in Krsna consciousness."
Prabhupada: Sa mahatma sudurlabhah. That is the... What do you think? What is your definition of mahatma?
Guest (1): Gita said, vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah [Bg. 7.19].
Prabhupada: Yes. Gita says, but what you say? Recently I went to Wardha, Mahatma Gandhi's asrama. Nobody is there. And they are worshiping Mahatma's lantern, and Mahatma's cadara. Not a single picture of Krsna. (chuckles) There is not a single picture of Krsna. And here it is said, bhajate mam ananya-bhak. This is going on. So read Bhagavad-gita As It Is. Learn. Everything is there. Make your life successful. That is our proposal. Come here. We have developed this center in good quarter. Discuss Bhagavad-gita and try to do what Krsna says. Make your life perfect. (Hindi) We are misguided. Misguided... (Hindi) Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gita: "This mahatma; this is God; this is function; this you have to do." Do it. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Four things anyone can do. A child can do.
yoginam api sarvesam
mad-gatenantar-atmana
sraddhavan bhajate yo mam
sa me yuktatamo matah
[Bg. 6.47]
First-class yogi -- one who is thinking of Krsna. (Hindi) There is no difficulty. Take Bhagavan prasada; chant Bhagavan's name; read Bhagavad-gita; try to understand. Very easy. What is the difficulty? Is there any difficulty? Hm? Do you think is there any difficulty? [break] ...Hindi.
Guest (7): (Hindi)
Prabhupada: (Hindi) ...asat-sanga-tyaga ei vaisnava-acara [Cc. Madhya 22.87]. You must give up the association of bad elements. And who is bad element? Asat eka stri-sangi krsna abhakta ara: One bad element is one who is too much attached to women, and the other bad element is who is not devotee of God. Give up their association. Then you will be steady. Mahat-sevam dvaram ahur vimukteh [SB 5.5.2]. If you actually associate with mahatmas, so that will open your door of liberation. Mahat-sevam dvaram ahur vimuktes tamo-dvaram yositam sangi-sangam. Those who are too much materially attached, if you associate with them, then you are going in the darkest region, not liberation, but in the darkness. Adanta-gobhir visatam tamisram [SB 7.5.30]. Those who are too much to material enjoyment -- they cannot control their senses -- they're going in the darkest region. Tamo-dvaram. Tamaso ma jyotir gamaya. This is Vedic instruction, "Don't go to the darkness; go to the light." Hare Krsna.
Satsvarupa: There is prasadam being served now.
Prabhupada: (Hindi) (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara
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From: Pragosh das
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 12:01 PM
Subject:
Srila Prabhupada speaks on: The Greatest Gain
Guest (1) (young British woman): What was the meaning in that?
Prabhupada: Thakura, they belong to ksatriya class. Brahmana... According to Vedic conception, there are four divisions: brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya and sudra. So next to brahmana is the ksatriya. So this Thakura title is given to the ksatriyas, administrator class. Yes. (pause, Prabhupada chants japa softly) So in your library you are keeping our books? No. All books?
Guest (2) (young British man): Well, not all of them. We don't have room to keep all.
Prabhupada: Hm. (pause) So you have known something about our movement?
Guest (2): Yes.
Prabhupada: You have also known?
Guest (1): No.
Prabhupada: No?
Guest (1): No, I came as a Christian, not knowing anything. I still don't know really anything.
Prabhupada: Our movement is to revive God consciousness. Just like a man is sleeping, and he has got some engagement, say, in the morning, at six o'clock. But still he's sleeping. So somebody is trying to awake him. "Get up, get up! You have got this engagement. You have..." Our movement is like that. The human society is sleeping. So we are just trying to awake them: "Get up. Get up. You have got this engagement." That is our business. It is not our manufactured business, but it is stated in the Vedic literature, uttistha jagrata prapta-varan nibodhata. "Now you be awakened." "Now" means "You have got this human form of life. You can now be awakened." In animal form of life there is no possibility. Therefore, in the human form of life, one should be awakened to Krsna consciousness, or God consciousness. And if he sleeps, then he loses his business. This is our mission, to awaken him. And when a man sleeps, how he can awaken him? Simply by vibration of sound. The sleeping man can be awakened simply by this process, allowing the sound to enter the ear. By no other process. He's sleeping. If you show him a stick, "If you don't get up, I shall strike you," that will not be effective. Because sleeping. If you say... So many things... There are other senses. There will be no action. But only through the ear, if you cry, "Please get up! Please get up! Now your time," that will act. So our process is that, to force him to hear. Then he'll be awakened, by hearing. Therefore Vedic literature is called sruti. Sruti means it has to be received by hearing. You may be uneducated. It doesn't matter. If you simply hear from the right source, you get right knowledge. There is no need of education. Simply by hearing.
Guest (1): You teach your children, don't you?
Prabhupada: Yes, all my disciples, they're taught.
Guest (1): No, I didn't mean disciples. I meant children, little ones.
Prabhupada: Oh yes. We have got children's school also.
Guest (1): They understand, do they not?
Prabhupada: Everyone will understand. Because hearing is there. Everyone, even a child, after hearing Hare Krsna mantra, he claps, he dances, he joins. That is practical. We have seen. Small child, say, four, five months old, on the lap of the mother, he's also moving, clapping. So this, this is also yoga system, bhakti-yoga. So it is so practical that even a small child can take part in it, without any advanced knowledge. Universal. Universal. Even dogs sometimes, they take part. We have got practical experience. They don't like to leave us. Yes, I have seen.
Devotee: I have too.
Prabhupada: Yes. They like this chanting and dancing. So we are, our business is to awake the sleeping man. Sleeping man means when you sleep you have no knowledge. If somebody kills you, you cannot protect yourself. Sleeping, that is sleeping stage, that we do not know what is happening. That is called sleeping stage. Even if you are so-called awakened, if you do not know the value of life, that is sleeping stage. That is sleeping stage. So in that sleeping stage, we are trying to awake the human society. A man, a human being, may be materially very qualified, but he does not know what is the value of human life, he's sleeping. He's sleeping. Can you distinguish...? You are all educationists. What is the difference between a human being and an animal?
Guest (1): Higher intelligence?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Guest (1): Higher intelligence, I think.
Prabhupada: What is that higher intelligence?
Guest (1): Speech and ability to compute what you hear.
Prabhupada: Oh, that, dog can also do. If you train dog that "If somebody, outsider comes, you bark," he'll do it.
Guest (2): The consciousness is...
Prabhupada: And so... Real intelligence is that to know "what I am." "I do not want to suffer. Why suffering in this world is imposed upon me?" This is intelligence. Take, for example, nobody wants to die. Why death is forced upon him? Nobody wants to die. If there is now news immediately, "Now this house will collapse," immediately we shall fly away. Because we don't want to die. If we understand that this house is going to be bombed immediately, we'll immediately leave. If there is earthquake... So many things. So nobody wants to die. But death is sure. So what solution they have made? I do not want to die, and death is forced upon me. So what solution we have made. What is, what is the scientists have done in this connection? Psychologically, if I do not want to die, then I must find out some way that death will not bother me. That is intelligence. You are talking of intelligence. Therefore I am explaining what is intelligence. Intelligence means "I do not want something, but it is being forced upon me. How to check it?" That is intelligence. Actually, the whole world is going on, we do not want to suffer. But suffering is there. Three kinds of suffering. One kind of suffering is called pertaining to the body and mind. I don't want to be diseased, but there is, all of a sudden, there is disease. Diarrhea. I don't want it, but it is imposed. This is suffering. Due to the body. Some discrepancies. Mind... Body's sound, but mind is not sound. Mind is "Oh, I don't feel today very nice." You see. This is one kind of suffering. Another suffering: other living creature gives you some pains. There are so many. Some of your friends, he turns to become your enemy. He puts you in difficulty. Or there are so many animals, so many insects. They give us trouble. This is one kind of suffering. Another kind of suffering: by nature's... All of sudden, there is drought. Now, just like, all, in India there is drought. They are suffering. No rain. All of a sudden there is earthquake. That is also suffering. There is some epidemic, pestilence. You cannot check it. So in this way, either of these three, sufferings going on. But those who are sleeping, they cannot understand that this is suffering. Just like animals. They cannot understand. That is sleeping stage. And when one is awakened, he will think "I don't want all these sufferings. Why they are imposed upon me? How I can avoid?" That is intelligence. So human being, unless he comes to this platform of intelligence, he is animal. The animal cannot do any remedy. You take one animal to the slaughterhouse. He cannot do anything. So sleeping means to remain in ignorance. And awakened stage means in knowledge. So intelligence means one must have knowledge. That is intelligence. So this division -- brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra -- means the highest intelligent class man is called brahmana. He knows. He's in knowledge. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. Next intelligent, less, is the ksatriyas. Next, the vaisyas. And the sudras, they are like, almost like animals. They have no independence. Just like animal has no independence. A dog, without a master, he cannot live. His life is very precarious. So at the present moment, however one qualified may be, unless he gets a good job, he's just like a dog, a street dog. He may be very highly qualified, technologically, but if he does not get a job, then he's useless. He'll go. "Sir, can you give me any job?" "No vacancies." A dog like. Just like dog goes, moves the tail, "Can you give me some food." Somebody gives him, "Eh! Hut!" This is the position. Therefore in this age kalau sudra-sambhavah. In Kali-yuga, there is no brahmana, no ksatriya. There are some vaisyas. And all sudras. Because they cannot live without being engaged by somebody else. And the whole civilization is going on, big, big factories, big, big... What is that? Sudras. They are creating sudras. "People should be dependent." Unless you work... Therefore people are going fifty miles away, going... I have seen in New York. People are coming from the other side... What is that?
Hamsaduta: Connecticut
Prabhupada: No, no. Staten Island?
Hamsaduta: Staten Island.
Prabhupada: Crossing by ferry, one hour. Then waiting for bus, another hour. Then going to the office. Then after office, they're coming back. Again going. Whole day, they're dependent on everything. That is the condition in New York. It is to be supposed: the most advanced city. The same thing is everywhere. People are becoming dependent, sudra, just like dogs. A dog, unless he gets a nice master, he's not happy. So at the present moment, all the population, just like the cats and dogs, they're dependent. They are not intelligent. Intelligence means he must be independent. That is intelligence. And people are struggling for independence. That is their motive. Everyone is struggling hard for independence. Because that is the culmination of intelligence. So our problem is that we do not know what we are. Neither we know how to get out of the miserable condition of life. Therefore we have no intelligence. We are like cats and dogs. This is the conclusion. What do you think? Am I right or wrong?
Guest (1): I couldn't follow you.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Guest (1): I haven't followed you.
Prabhupada: No, what is your opinion, my description of intelligence and not, no intelligence?
Guest (1): I think you're right.
Prabhupada: Thank you. (laughter)
Guest (1): But you know, my thoughts must be really not worth very much.
Prabhupada: But we can give intelligence by which he can become independent. This is Krsna consciousness movement.
Guest (1): How can we in a money-orientated world?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Hamsaduta: How can we become intelligent or independent?
Guest (1): In a money-orientated world?
Prabhupada: Well, money you can get. That money does not mean independence.
Guest (1): No, I know.
Prabhupada: They are, while working, they're getting money, but they're not independent.
Guest (1): No, I understand that.
Prabhupada: Yes. So without money, if you become independent, that is intelligence.
Srutakirti: That was her question.
Prabhupada: Ah. That, if you can get Krsna, you'll...
Guest (1): But how do you, what I mean is how do you, how can you...
Prabhupada: That "how to," that we shall teach, as we are teaching others. In the Bhagavad-gita it is stated,
Yam labdhva. You get something, which getting, you will be satisfied: "I don't want anything more." That is highest gain. Yam labdhva caparam labham manyate nadhikam tatah. Caparam. Another kind of benefit is not required. So yasmin sthitah. If we remain in that position, then even there is hardest difficulty of life, he'll not be disturbed. (pause) Where is Panditji?
Devotee: I'll get him. (pause)
Hamsaduta: Should I put on the light, Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Yes. Sit down. (pause) He gets such thing, when he gets it, he'll consider that he doesn't want anything more. That is the greatest profit. And the result is that when one gets that thing, even he is in the greatest difficulty of life, he's not disturbed.
Hm. Take that. Bhagavad-gita. Yam labdhva, yam labdhva caparam labham manyate nadhikam tatah. I think it is in the Sixth Chapter.
Pradyumna: Yam nam?
Prabhupada: Labdhva.
Pradyumna: Oh, caparam labham?
Prabhupada: Ah.
Pradyumna: Six-twenty-two.
"Established thus, one never departs from the truth, and upon gaining this, he thinks there is no greater gain. Being situated in such a position, one is never shaken, even in the midst of greatest difficulty. This, indeed, is actual freedom from all miseries arising from material contact."
Prabhupada: Purport.
Pradyumna: "By practice of yoga, one becomes gradually detached from material concepts. This is the primary characteristic of the yoga principle. And after this, one becomes situated in trance, or samadhi, which means that the yogi realizes the Supersoul through transcendental mind and intelligence, without any of the misgivings of identifying the self with the Superself. Yoga practice is more or less based on the principles of the Patanjali system. Some unauthorized commentators try to identify the individual soul with the Supersoul, and the monists think this to be liberation, but they do not understand the real purpose of the Patanjali system of yoga. There is an acceptance of transcendental pleasure in the Patanjali system, but the monists do not accept this transcendental pleasure out of fear of jeopardizing the theory of oneness. The duality of knowledge and knower is not accepted by the non-dualists, but in this verse transcendental pleasure, realized through transcendental senses, is accepted, and this is corroborated by the Patanjali Muni, the famous exponent of the yoga system. The great sage declared in his Yoga-sutras: purusartha-sunyanam gunanam pratiprasavah kaivalyam svarupa-pratistha va citi-saktir iti." This citi-sakti, or internal potency, is transcendental. Purusartha means material religiosity, economic development, sense gratification and, at the end, the attempt to become one with the Supreme. This "oneness with the Supreme" is called kaivalyam by the monist. But according to Patanjali, this kaivalyam is an internal, or transcendental, potency by which the living entity becomes aware of his constitutional position. In the words of Lord Caitanya, this state of affairs is called ceto-darpana-marjanam, or clearance of the impure mirror of the mind. This "clearance" is actually liberation, or bhava-mahadavagni-nirvapanam. The theory of nirvana -- also preliminary -- corresponds with this principle. In the Bhagavatam this is called svarupena vyavasthitih [SB 2.10.6]. The Bhagavad-gita also confirms this situation in this verse.
After nirvana, or material cessation, there is the manifestation of spiritual activities, or devotional service of the Lord, known as Krsna consciousness. In the words of the Bhagavatam, svarupena vyavasthitih: this is the "real life of the living entity." Maya, or illusion, is the condition of spiritual life contaminated by material infection. Liberation from this material infection does not mean destruction of the original eternal position of the living entity. Patanjali also accepts this by his words kaivalyam svarupa-pratistha va citi-saktir iti. This citi-sakti or transcendental pleasure, is real life. This is confirmed in the Vedanta-sutras as anandamayo 'bhyasat (Vedanta-sutra 1.1.12). This natural transcendental pleasure is the ultimate goal of yoga and is easily achieved by execution of devotional service, or bhakti-yoga. Bhaktiyoga will be vividly described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gita.
In the yoga system, as described in this chapter, there are two kinds of samadhi, called samprajnata-samadhi and asamprajnata-samadhi. When one becomes situated in the transcendental position by various philosophical researches, it is called samprajnata-samadhi. In the asamprajnata-samadhi there is no longer any connection with mundane pleasure, for one is then transcendental to all sorts of happiness derived from the senses. When the yogi is once situated in that transcendental position, he is never shaken from it. Unless the yogi is able to reach this position, he is unsuccessful. Today's so-called yoga practice, which involves various sense pleasures, is contradictory. A yogi indulging in sex and intoxication is a mockery. Even those yogis who are attracted by the siddhis (perfections) in the process of yoga are not perfectly situated. If the yogis are attracted by the by-products of yoga, then they cannot attain the stage of perfection, as is stated in this verse. Persons, therefore, indulging in the make-show practice of gymnastic feats or siddhis should know that the aim of yoga is lost in that way.
The best practice of yoga in this age is Krsna consciousness, which is not baffling. A Krsna conscious person is so happy in his occupation that he does not aspire after any other happiness. There are many impediments, especially in this age of hypocrisy, to practicing hatha-yoga, dhyana-yoga, and jnana-yoga, but there is no such problem in executing karma-yoga or bhakti-yoga.
As long as the material body exists, one has to meet the demands of the body, namely eating, sleeping, defending and mating. But a person who is in pure bhakti-yoga or in Krsna consciousness does not arouse the senses while meeting the demands of the body. Rather, he accepts the bare necessities of life, making the best use of a bad bargain, and enjoys transcendental happiness in Krsna consciousness. He is callous toward incidental occurrences -- such as accidents, disease, scarcity and even the death of a most dear relative -- but he is always alert to execute his duties in Krsna consciousness or bhakti-yoga. Accidents never deviate him from his duty. As stated in the Bhagavad-gita, agamapayino 'nityas tams titiksasva bharata. He endures all such incidental occurences because he knows that they come and go and do not affect his duties. In this way he achieves the highest perfection in yoga practice.
Prabhupada: If you have got any question in this statement, you can ask.
Guest (1): Just, just how...?
Prabhupada: How, that you have to learn, but this is the process.
Guest (1): That is the end product.
Prabhupada: Hm. You learn... We have got this institution. You can come and learn how others are doing, others are learning. We have got class in the morning at seven. If you've got time, you can, you are welcome. We don't charge anything. You can come and join. There is no business. You can live with us. We don't charge anything. Or you can come and go, attend class. There is no charge. Krsna gives us everything. Just like this house. This is two hundred thousand pounds. George Harrison has purchased it, and he has given us. Similarly, everything comes from Krsna. None of our members go to office or factory. But we eat also, nicely.
Guest (2): Yes, but if somebody didn't go to the factory, you wouldn't, would you?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Guest (2): Somebody has to go and do the work to make the food, keep the country running.
Prabhupada: No. We don't hate to work. That is not our business. If we get work, we work for Krsna. The income comes to Krsna. But if we don't get work, we are not bothered, that "There is no work. Where shall I eat? Where shall I sleep? Where shall I go?" No, there is no such botheration. So all the members, I think, eighty, ninety percent, they do not go to work outside.
Hamsaduta: Ninety-nine.
Prabhupada: Eh? (laughter) But they get their food and shelter and everything. Even they live with a wife, children. So we,... Krsna gives. Not only that we are simply sannyasi, brahmacari. There are grhasthas, householders, husband, wife, children. They are also living. So that is not our problem. How to eat, how to sleep, that is not our problem. Our only problem is how to satisfy Krsna. That is...
Guest (1): Yes. That was the question that was puzzling me. What is...?
Prabhupada: That you have to learn. Not in a moment you can understand. Then you have to come to the schooling process. Otherwise how you can learn? In a moment? Such a big subject matter?
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupada: We are going to solve all the problems of life. Such a nice proposal. Don't you think it requires little patience to understand how to do it?
Guest (1): It requires a little bravery.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Guest (1): It requires bravery too.
Prabhupada: Yes. Because we have got background, Krsna, so bravery, personally we haven't got to practice. Just like a child is in the protection of an able father. He's happy. "Whatever happens, father will see." He's happy. He's confident. "My father is there; my mother is there. Who can do any harm to me?" He's confident.
Guest (1): There is so much that's wrong.
Prabhupada: So similarly, if you depend on Krsna, God, He'll take care of you. He says in the Bhagavad-gita:
Yoga-ksemam vahamy aham. Tesam nityabhiyuktanam yoga-ksemam vahamy aham [Bg. 9.22]. Everything is there. And that you have to understand practically. (pause) You are all living in neighborhood, this village? No. You have come from distant place?
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupada: Oh. So whenever you find time, you can come, or, if you like, you can live with us. We have got ample place. Girls and ladies, they live separately. Boys and gentlemen, they live separately. Those who are married, we have got apartments for householders. And gradually, we are improving, I mean to say, arranging further facilities. First of all you try to attend our class in the morning and inquire all about your doubts. Have some clear idea what is this Krsna consciousness movement. Read our literatures as far as possible. You have taken some book, I see, I saw. And if you agree to this principle, we take charge of you. You haven't got any botheration, how you'll get prasada. We shall arrange for that...
Guest (3) (young British woman): Religion, meaning trying to serve God, is any more right than another?
Prabhupada: This is not religion. This is the only business. Religion is different thing. Suppose... Just like... I have already explained, that you are sleeping, and you have got a good engagement. And somebody's trying to awake you, that "You have to go there. Just get up! Get up!" So this kind of business is not religion. Religion is a, what is a kind of faith, a sentiment. That is different thing. It is the main business of human being. Because we are part and parcel of... Just like a boy, he's very rich man's son. Some way or other, he's out of his home, and he's suffering for want of food, want of shelter. And somebody's giving information that "I know you are such and such big man's son. Why you are loitering in the street? Why don't you go back to your home, back to your father?" So is it not the best business. So everyone is suffering. That I have already explained, how they are suffering. We are trying to save his suffering by dispatching him back to home, back to Godhead. This is our business. So it is not religion. It is the most important humanitarian work. What do you think?
Hamsaduta: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. We are giving the right information, how human being can be really happy. This is end. It is not a religious sentiment. Religion means kind of faith. Today I am Hindu; tomorrow I am Christian; next day I am Mohammedan. What benefit I may get by changing so-called faith? Unless I understand what is my constitutional position, why I am suffering, how to get out of it? That is real life. So Krsna consciousness movement is that. It is not a sentimental religious faith. It is not like that. It is absolutely necessary for the human being. We are talking of human being because without being a human being, nobody will be able... The cats and dogs, they will not be able to understand the problem. In the human form of life, you can make solution of all the problems of life. It is a science, how to make that solution. That we are teaching. We are not talking of religion. Religion... Somebody will say, "I believe," "We believe..." Another will, "We believe..." You believe, if it is not a fact, what is the use of such believing? We are dealing with facts, not the question of believing and not believing. Facts are facts. If you don't take facts, then you are missing the opportunity. (pause) You have got some visitors' book? To...?
Hamsaduta: Visitors' book, to sign?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hamsaduta: No, I don't think so.
Prabhupada: Somebody told me they have got. You have seen all our books? You have seen?
Guest (2): Yes.
Prabhupada: You have seen?
Guest (2): Some of the little... (pause) (end)
Prabhupada: Thakura, they belong to ksatriya class. Brahmana... According to Vedic conception, there are four divisions: brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya and sudra. So next to brahmana is the ksatriya. So this Thakura title is given to the ksatriyas, administrator class. Yes. (pause, Prabhupada chants japa softly) So in your library you are keeping our books? No. All books?
Guest (2) (young British man): Well, not all of them. We don't have room to keep all.
Prabhupada: Hm. (pause) So you have known something about our movement?
Guest (2): Yes.
Prabhupada: You have also known?
Guest (1): No.
Prabhupada: No?
Guest (1): No, I came as a Christian, not knowing anything. I still don't know really anything.
Prabhupada: Our movement is to revive God consciousness. Just like a man is sleeping, and he has got some engagement, say, in the morning, at six o'clock. But still he's sleeping. So somebody is trying to awake him. "Get up, get up! You have got this engagement. You have..." Our movement is like that. The human society is sleeping. So we are just trying to awake them: "Get up. Get up. You have got this engagement." That is our business. It is not our manufactured business, but it is stated in the Vedic literature, uttistha jagrata prapta-varan nibodhata. "Now you be awakened." "Now" means "You have got this human form of life. You can now be awakened." In animal form of life there is no possibility. Therefore, in the human form of life, one should be awakened to Krsna consciousness, or God consciousness. And if he sleeps, then he loses his business. This is our mission, to awaken him. And when a man sleeps, how he can awaken him? Simply by vibration of sound. The sleeping man can be awakened simply by this process, allowing the sound to enter the ear. By no other process. He's sleeping. If you show him a stick, "If you don't get up, I shall strike you," that will not be effective. Because sleeping. If you say... So many things... There are other senses. There will be no action. But only through the ear, if you cry, "Please get up! Please get up! Now your time," that will act. So our process is that, to force him to hear. Then he'll be awakened, by hearing. Therefore Vedic literature is called sruti. Sruti means it has to be received by hearing. You may be uneducated. It doesn't matter. If you simply hear from the right source, you get right knowledge. There is no need of education. Simply by hearing.
Guest (1): You teach your children, don't you?
Prabhupada: Yes, all my disciples, they're taught.
Guest (1): No, I didn't mean disciples. I meant children, little ones.
Prabhupada: Oh yes. We have got children's school also.
Guest (1): They understand, do they not?
Prabhupada: Everyone will understand. Because hearing is there. Everyone, even a child, after hearing Hare Krsna mantra, he claps, he dances, he joins. That is practical. We have seen. Small child, say, four, five months old, on the lap of the mother, he's also moving, clapping. So this, this is also yoga system, bhakti-yoga. So it is so practical that even a small child can take part in it, without any advanced knowledge. Universal. Universal. Even dogs sometimes, they take part. We have got practical experience. They don't like to leave us. Yes, I have seen.
Devotee: I have too.
Prabhupada: Yes. They like this chanting and dancing. So we are, our business is to awake the sleeping man. Sleeping man means when you sleep you have no knowledge. If somebody kills you, you cannot protect yourself. Sleeping, that is sleeping stage, that we do not know what is happening. That is called sleeping stage. Even if you are so-called awakened, if you do not know the value of life, that is sleeping stage. That is sleeping stage. So in that sleeping stage, we are trying to awake the human society. A man, a human being, may be materially very qualified, but he does not know what is the value of human life, he's sleeping. He's sleeping. Can you distinguish...? You are all educationists. What is the difference between a human being and an animal?
Guest (1): Higher intelligence?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Guest (1): Higher intelligence, I think.
Prabhupada: What is that higher intelligence?
Guest (1): Speech and ability to compute what you hear.
Prabhupada: Oh, that, dog can also do. If you train dog that "If somebody, outsider comes, you bark," he'll do it.
Guest (2): The consciousness is...
Prabhupada: And so... Real intelligence is that to know "what I am." "I do not want to suffer. Why suffering in this world is imposed upon me?" This is intelligence. Take, for example, nobody wants to die. Why death is forced upon him? Nobody wants to die. If there is now news immediately, "Now this house will collapse," immediately we shall fly away. Because we don't want to die. If we understand that this house is going to be bombed immediately, we'll immediately leave. If there is earthquake... So many things. So nobody wants to die. But death is sure. So what solution they have made? I do not want to die, and death is forced upon me. So what solution we have made. What is, what is the scientists have done in this connection? Psychologically, if I do not want to die, then I must find out some way that death will not bother me. That is intelligence. You are talking of intelligence. Therefore I am explaining what is intelligence. Intelligence means "I do not want something, but it is being forced upon me. How to check it?" That is intelligence. Actually, the whole world is going on, we do not want to suffer. But suffering is there. Three kinds of suffering. One kind of suffering is called pertaining to the body and mind. I don't want to be diseased, but there is, all of a sudden, there is disease. Diarrhea. I don't want it, but it is imposed. This is suffering. Due to the body. Some discrepancies. Mind... Body's sound, but mind is not sound. Mind is "Oh, I don't feel today very nice." You see. This is one kind of suffering. Another suffering: other living creature gives you some pains. There are so many. Some of your friends, he turns to become your enemy. He puts you in difficulty. Or there are so many animals, so many insects. They give us trouble. This is one kind of suffering. Another kind of suffering: by nature's... All of sudden, there is drought. Now, just like, all, in India there is drought. They are suffering. No rain. All of a sudden there is earthquake. That is also suffering. There is some epidemic, pestilence. You cannot check it. So in this way, either of these three, sufferings going on. But those who are sleeping, they cannot understand that this is suffering. Just like animals. They cannot understand. That is sleeping stage. And when one is awakened, he will think "I don't want all these sufferings. Why they are imposed upon me? How I can avoid?" That is intelligence. So human being, unless he comes to this platform of intelligence, he is animal. The animal cannot do any remedy. You take one animal to the slaughterhouse. He cannot do anything. So sleeping means to remain in ignorance. And awakened stage means in knowledge. So intelligence means one must have knowledge. That is intelligence. So this division -- brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra -- means the highest intelligent class man is called brahmana. He knows. He's in knowledge. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. Next intelligent, less, is the ksatriyas. Next, the vaisyas. And the sudras, they are like, almost like animals. They have no independence. Just like animal has no independence. A dog, without a master, he cannot live. His life is very precarious. So at the present moment, however one qualified may be, unless he gets a good job, he's just like a dog, a street dog. He may be very highly qualified, technologically, but if he does not get a job, then he's useless. He'll go. "Sir, can you give me any job?" "No vacancies." A dog like. Just like dog goes, moves the tail, "Can you give me some food." Somebody gives him, "Eh! Hut!" This is the position. Therefore in this age kalau sudra-sambhavah. In Kali-yuga, there is no brahmana, no ksatriya. There are some vaisyas. And all sudras. Because they cannot live without being engaged by somebody else. And the whole civilization is going on, big, big factories, big, big... What is that? Sudras. They are creating sudras. "People should be dependent." Unless you work... Therefore people are going fifty miles away, going... I have seen in New York. People are coming from the other side... What is that?
Hamsaduta: Connecticut
Prabhupada: No, no. Staten Island?
Hamsaduta: Staten Island.
Prabhupada: Crossing by ferry, one hour. Then waiting for bus, another hour. Then going to the office. Then after office, they're coming back. Again going. Whole day, they're dependent on everything. That is the condition in New York. It is to be supposed: the most advanced city. The same thing is everywhere. People are becoming dependent, sudra, just like dogs. A dog, unless he gets a nice master, he's not happy. So at the present moment, all the population, just like the cats and dogs, they're dependent. They are not intelligent. Intelligence means he must be independent. That is intelligence. And people are struggling for independence. That is their motive. Everyone is struggling hard for independence. Because that is the culmination of intelligence. So our problem is that we do not know what we are. Neither we know how to get out of the miserable condition of life. Therefore we have no intelligence. We are like cats and dogs. This is the conclusion. What do you think? Am I right or wrong?
Guest (1): I couldn't follow you.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Guest (1): I haven't followed you.
Prabhupada: No, what is your opinion, my description of intelligence and not, no intelligence?
Guest (1): I think you're right.
Prabhupada: Thank you. (laughter)
Guest (1): But you know, my thoughts must be really not worth very much.
Prabhupada: But we can give intelligence by which he can become independent. This is Krsna consciousness movement.
Guest (1): How can we in a money-orientated world?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Hamsaduta: How can we become intelligent or independent?
Guest (1): In a money-orientated world?
Prabhupada: Well, money you can get. That money does not mean independence.
Guest (1): No, I know.
Prabhupada: They are, while working, they're getting money, but they're not independent.
Guest (1): No, I understand that.
Prabhupada: Yes. So without money, if you become independent, that is intelligence.
Srutakirti: That was her question.
Prabhupada: Ah. That, if you can get Krsna, you'll...
Guest (1): But how do you, what I mean is how do you, how can you...
Prabhupada: That "how to," that we shall teach, as we are teaching others. In the Bhagavad-gita it is stated,
yam labdhva caparam labham
manyate nadhikam tatah
yasmin sthito na duhkhena
gurunapi vicalyate
[Bg. 6.20-23]
Yam labdhva. You get something, which getting, you will be satisfied: "I don't want anything more." That is highest gain. Yam labdhva caparam labham manyate nadhikam tatah. Caparam. Another kind of benefit is not required. So yasmin sthitah. If we remain in that position, then even there is hardest difficulty of life, he'll not be disturbed. (pause) Where is Panditji?
Devotee: I'll get him. (pause)
Hamsaduta: Should I put on the light, Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Yes. Sit down. (pause) He gets such thing, when he gets it, he'll consider that he doesn't want anything more. That is the greatest profit. And the result is that when one gets that thing, even he is in the greatest difficulty of life, he's not disturbed.
yam labdhva caparam labham
manyate nadhikam tatah
yasmin sthito na duhkhena
gurunapi vicalyate
[Bg. 6.20-23]
Hm. Take that. Bhagavad-gita. Yam labdhva, yam labdhva caparam labham manyate nadhikam tatah. I think it is in the Sixth Chapter.
Pradyumna: Yam nam?
Prabhupada: Labdhva.
Pradyumna: Oh, caparam labham?
Prabhupada: Ah.
Pradyumna: Six-twenty-two.
yam labdhva caparam labham
manyate nadhikam tatah
yasmin sthito na duhkhena
gurunapi vicalyate
tam vidyad duhkha-samyoga-
viyogam yoga-samjnikam
[Bg. 6.20-23]
"Established thus, one never departs from the truth, and upon gaining this, he thinks there is no greater gain. Being situated in such a position, one is never shaken, even in the midst of greatest difficulty. This, indeed, is actual freedom from all miseries arising from material contact."
Prabhupada: Purport.
Pradyumna: "By practice of yoga, one becomes gradually detached from material concepts. This is the primary characteristic of the yoga principle. And after this, one becomes situated in trance, or samadhi, which means that the yogi realizes the Supersoul through transcendental mind and intelligence, without any of the misgivings of identifying the self with the Superself. Yoga practice is more or less based on the principles of the Patanjali system. Some unauthorized commentators try to identify the individual soul with the Supersoul, and the monists think this to be liberation, but they do not understand the real purpose of the Patanjali system of yoga. There is an acceptance of transcendental pleasure in the Patanjali system, but the monists do not accept this transcendental pleasure out of fear of jeopardizing the theory of oneness. The duality of knowledge and knower is not accepted by the non-dualists, but in this verse transcendental pleasure, realized through transcendental senses, is accepted, and this is corroborated by the Patanjali Muni, the famous exponent of the yoga system. The great sage declared in his Yoga-sutras: purusartha-sunyanam gunanam pratiprasavah kaivalyam svarupa-pratistha va citi-saktir iti." This citi-sakti, or internal potency, is transcendental. Purusartha means material religiosity, economic development, sense gratification and, at the end, the attempt to become one with the Supreme. This "oneness with the Supreme" is called kaivalyam by the monist. But according to Patanjali, this kaivalyam is an internal, or transcendental, potency by which the living entity becomes aware of his constitutional position. In the words of Lord Caitanya, this state of affairs is called ceto-darpana-marjanam, or clearance of the impure mirror of the mind. This "clearance" is actually liberation, or bhava-mahadavagni-nirvapanam. The theory of nirvana -- also preliminary -- corresponds with this principle. In the Bhagavatam this is called svarupena vyavasthitih [SB 2.10.6]. The Bhagavad-gita also confirms this situation in this verse.
After nirvana, or material cessation, there is the manifestation of spiritual activities, or devotional service of the Lord, known as Krsna consciousness. In the words of the Bhagavatam, svarupena vyavasthitih: this is the "real life of the living entity." Maya, or illusion, is the condition of spiritual life contaminated by material infection. Liberation from this material infection does not mean destruction of the original eternal position of the living entity. Patanjali also accepts this by his words kaivalyam svarupa-pratistha va citi-saktir iti. This citi-sakti or transcendental pleasure, is real life. This is confirmed in the Vedanta-sutras as anandamayo 'bhyasat (Vedanta-sutra 1.1.12). This natural transcendental pleasure is the ultimate goal of yoga and is easily achieved by execution of devotional service, or bhakti-yoga. Bhaktiyoga will be vividly described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gita.
In the yoga system, as described in this chapter, there are two kinds of samadhi, called samprajnata-samadhi and asamprajnata-samadhi. When one becomes situated in the transcendental position by various philosophical researches, it is called samprajnata-samadhi. In the asamprajnata-samadhi there is no longer any connection with mundane pleasure, for one is then transcendental to all sorts of happiness derived from the senses. When the yogi is once situated in that transcendental position, he is never shaken from it. Unless the yogi is able to reach this position, he is unsuccessful. Today's so-called yoga practice, which involves various sense pleasures, is contradictory. A yogi indulging in sex and intoxication is a mockery. Even those yogis who are attracted by the siddhis (perfections) in the process of yoga are not perfectly situated. If the yogis are attracted by the by-products of yoga, then they cannot attain the stage of perfection, as is stated in this verse. Persons, therefore, indulging in the make-show practice of gymnastic feats or siddhis should know that the aim of yoga is lost in that way.
The best practice of yoga in this age is Krsna consciousness, which is not baffling. A Krsna conscious person is so happy in his occupation that he does not aspire after any other happiness. There are many impediments, especially in this age of hypocrisy, to practicing hatha-yoga, dhyana-yoga, and jnana-yoga, but there is no such problem in executing karma-yoga or bhakti-yoga.
As long as the material body exists, one has to meet the demands of the body, namely eating, sleeping, defending and mating. But a person who is in pure bhakti-yoga or in Krsna consciousness does not arouse the senses while meeting the demands of the body. Rather, he accepts the bare necessities of life, making the best use of a bad bargain, and enjoys transcendental happiness in Krsna consciousness. He is callous toward incidental occurrences -- such as accidents, disease, scarcity and even the death of a most dear relative -- but he is always alert to execute his duties in Krsna consciousness or bhakti-yoga. Accidents never deviate him from his duty. As stated in the Bhagavad-gita, agamapayino 'nityas tams titiksasva bharata. He endures all such incidental occurences because he knows that they come and go and do not affect his duties. In this way he achieves the highest perfection in yoga practice.
Prabhupada: If you have got any question in this statement, you can ask.
Guest (1): Just, just how...?
Prabhupada: How, that you have to learn, but this is the process.
Guest (1): That is the end product.
Prabhupada: Hm. You learn... We have got this institution. You can come and learn how others are doing, others are learning. We have got class in the morning at seven. If you've got time, you can, you are welcome. We don't charge anything. You can come and join. There is no business. You can live with us. We don't charge anything. Or you can come and go, attend class. There is no charge. Krsna gives us everything. Just like this house. This is two hundred thousand pounds. George Harrison has purchased it, and he has given us. Similarly, everything comes from Krsna. None of our members go to office or factory. But we eat also, nicely.
Guest (2): Yes, but if somebody didn't go to the factory, you wouldn't, would you?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Guest (2): Somebody has to go and do the work to make the food, keep the country running.
Prabhupada: No. We don't hate to work. That is not our business. If we get work, we work for Krsna. The income comes to Krsna. But if we don't get work, we are not bothered, that "There is no work. Where shall I eat? Where shall I sleep? Where shall I go?" No, there is no such botheration. So all the members, I think, eighty, ninety percent, they do not go to work outside.
Hamsaduta: Ninety-nine.
Prabhupada: Eh? (laughter) But they get their food and shelter and everything. Even they live with a wife, children. So we,... Krsna gives. Not only that we are simply sannyasi, brahmacari. There are grhasthas, householders, husband, wife, children. They are also living. So that is not our problem. How to eat, how to sleep, that is not our problem. Our only problem is how to satisfy Krsna. That is...
Guest (1): Yes. That was the question that was puzzling me. What is...?
Prabhupada: That you have to learn. Not in a moment you can understand. Then you have to come to the schooling process. Otherwise how you can learn? In a moment? Such a big subject matter?
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupada: We are going to solve all the problems of life. Such a nice proposal. Don't you think it requires little patience to understand how to do it?
Guest (1): It requires a little bravery.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Guest (1): It requires bravery too.
Prabhupada: Yes. Because we have got background, Krsna, so bravery, personally we haven't got to practice. Just like a child is in the protection of an able father. He's happy. "Whatever happens, father will see." He's happy. He's confident. "My father is there; my mother is there. Who can do any harm to me?" He's confident.
Guest (1): There is so much that's wrong.
Prabhupada: So similarly, if you depend on Krsna, God, He'll take care of you. He says in the Bhagavad-gita:
sarva-dharman parityajya
mam ekam saranam vraja
aham tvam sarva-papebhyo
moksayisyami ma sucah
[Bg. 18.66]
Yoga-ksemam vahamy aham. Tesam nityabhiyuktanam yoga-ksemam vahamy aham [Bg. 9.22]. Everything is there. And that you have to understand practically. (pause) You are all living in neighborhood, this village? No. You have come from distant place?
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupada: Oh. So whenever you find time, you can come, or, if you like, you can live with us. We have got ample place. Girls and ladies, they live separately. Boys and gentlemen, they live separately. Those who are married, we have got apartments for householders. And gradually, we are improving, I mean to say, arranging further facilities. First of all you try to attend our class in the morning and inquire all about your doubts. Have some clear idea what is this Krsna consciousness movement. Read our literatures as far as possible. You have taken some book, I see, I saw. And if you agree to this principle, we take charge of you. You haven't got any botheration, how you'll get prasada. We shall arrange for that...
Guest (3) (young British woman): Religion, meaning trying to serve God, is any more right than another?
Prabhupada: This is not religion. This is the only business. Religion is different thing. Suppose... Just like... I have already explained, that you are sleeping, and you have got a good engagement. And somebody's trying to awake you, that "You have to go there. Just get up! Get up!" So this kind of business is not religion. Religion is a, what is a kind of faith, a sentiment. That is different thing. It is the main business of human being. Because we are part and parcel of... Just like a boy, he's very rich man's son. Some way or other, he's out of his home, and he's suffering for want of food, want of shelter. And somebody's giving information that "I know you are such and such big man's son. Why you are loitering in the street? Why don't you go back to your home, back to your father?" So is it not the best business. So everyone is suffering. That I have already explained, how they are suffering. We are trying to save his suffering by dispatching him back to home, back to Godhead. This is our business. So it is not religion. It is the most important humanitarian work. What do you think?
Hamsaduta: Yes.
Prabhupada: Yes. We are giving the right information, how human being can be really happy. This is end. It is not a religious sentiment. Religion means kind of faith. Today I am Hindu; tomorrow I am Christian; next day I am Mohammedan. What benefit I may get by changing so-called faith? Unless I understand what is my constitutional position, why I am suffering, how to get out of it? That is real life. So Krsna consciousness movement is that. It is not a sentimental religious faith. It is not like that. It is absolutely necessary for the human being. We are talking of human being because without being a human being, nobody will be able... The cats and dogs, they will not be able to understand the problem. In the human form of life, you can make solution of all the problems of life. It is a science, how to make that solution. That we are teaching. We are not talking of religion. Religion... Somebody will say, "I believe," "We believe..." Another will, "We believe..." You believe, if it is not a fact, what is the use of such believing? We are dealing with facts, not the question of believing and not believing. Facts are facts. If you don't take facts, then you are missing the opportunity. (pause) You have got some visitors' book? To...?
Hamsaduta: Visitors' book, to sign?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hamsaduta: No, I don't think so.
Prabhupada: Somebody told me they have got. You have seen all our books? You have seen?
Guest (2): Yes.
Prabhupada: You have seen?
Guest (2): Some of the little... (pause) (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London
H OM E
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International. Used with permission.
For higher quality audio, you may purchase the MP3s/CDs from www.Krishna.com
From: Pragosh das
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 12:01 PM
Subject:
Srila Prabhupada speaks on: The Huge Little Chance
Prabhupada: He was taking opportunity to preach Krsna consciousness during tiffin hours. When the teachers would go away... During tiffin time, of course, the teachers go away, and Prahlada Maharaja immediately will... (aside:) Let him come here. He'd immediately take the opportunity of preaching Krsna consciousness. (greets Indian guests in Bengali) Asun, come on. [break] ...Krsna consciousness even in the classroom. All the school friends were sons of demons, means atheist class of men. So they did not know anything about God, and Prahlada Maharaja was taking advantage of the school tiffin hour and preaching. So his first beginning of the teaching was kaumara acaret prajno dharman bhagavtan iha [SB 7.6.1]. From the beginning of life, when we are children, we should learn about Krsna consciousness. That is the beginning of his teachings. Go on.
Nalinikantha:
Prabhupada: Allow some Indian dress may come in.
Nalinikantha: "Prahlada Maharaja continued: My dear friends born of demoniac families, the happiness perceived with reference to the sense objects..."
Prabhupada: He is addressing his friends, "born of demoniac families, my dear friends." (laughs) Give him one chair, Dr. Wolfe. Yes, that's nice. He used to address his father also as "the best of the demons." Once his father asked him, "My dear son, what nice lesson you have learned in the school? Please tell me." So he addressed his father, asura-varya, "the best of the asuras."
So, "My dear father," not "father," "the best of the asuras," asurya-varya, the chief asura, "in my opinion," tat sadhu manye, "I think, so far I have studied," tat sadhu manye, "I think that is very nice, very honest profession of occupation for persons who are always full of anxieties." In the material world everyone is full of anxiety. That's a fact. Even in your country, the President Nixon, he was full of anxiety while he was in office, and now, out of his office, he's also full of anxiety. So just see. This is the best man in your country, president, the foremost man. So if he is full of anxiety, the others naturally... Everyone. So what is the cause of the anxiety? Asad-grahat. Sada samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat. Asat means that does not exist, "not eternal," it is just opposite. Eternal is called sat, om tat sat, and asat means just the opposite. So here in this material world everything is asat. Even this body is asat; it will not exist. And what to speak of other things with reference to the body. Everything is asat. Anything material is asat; it will not stay, either these trees or this land or this world or this country or this, anything, asat. So asad-grahat, on account of accepting things which are asat, not permanent, they are always full of anxiety. Just see how nicely explained, why one is full of anxiety. The reason is, he has accepted something which will not stay, endure, and he has accepted: "This is all in all. My country is all in all. My family is all in all. This body, all in all." But it will not stay. That's a practical fact. But they are sticking to these things. Deha-patra-kalatradisu atma-sainyesu asatsu api. There is another verse where this word is used, asat. Everyone is thinking, "I am secure. I am born in a very good nation, state. My body is very strong. My family members are very nice, well-educated. I have got good bank balance, and I have got respectable position," so on, so on. He is thinking, "These things will save me." This world is struggle for existence, and when there is struggle, there are some soldiers. So atma-sainyesu asatsu api. One is thinking that "These are my soldiers. I'll own victory in the struggle for existence." But pramattah tasya nidhanam pasyann api na pasyati. But he's so mad, he knows that these things will be vanquished, and still, he does not see to it. Pasyann api na pasyati. Therefore his anxiety. So Prahlada Maharaja is, this version, sada samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat: "On account of accepting nonpermanent things as permanent, therefore he's full of anxiety." Sada samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat. Then what is the remedy? The remedy is hitvatma-ghatam grham andha-kupam: "This andha-kupam, dark well of ignorance, one must give up." Then vanam gato yad dharim asrayeta: [SB 7.5.5] "He must go to vana." When one goes to vana, it is called vanaprastha. So after family life, according to Vedic civilization, one has to accept vanaprastha life. And when one is fully prepared, he takes sannyasa after vanaprastha life. So vanam gatah means one should prepare by going to the forest for the next life of renounced order of life. That is human civilization: brahmacari, grhasta, vanaprastha and sannyasa. Sannyasa means full engaged in Krsna consciousness. Vanam gato yad dharim asrayeta [SB 7.5.5]. Otherwise, what is the use of going to the forest? In the forest there are many monkeys also. So that kind of life is not harim asrayeta. He must take shelter of the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari. That is om tat sat. And then he'll be happy. That is Vedic civilization. So Prahlada Maharaja is teaching to the boys, his class friends. He was five-years-old boy. Naturally, his friends are also of the same age, and he's teaching this bhagavata-dharma. Read this.
Nalinikantha: "The happiness perceived with reference to the sense objects by contact with the body can be obtained in any form of life, according to one's past fruitive activities. Such happiness is automatically obtained without endeavor, just as we obtain distress."
Prabhupada: Thank you. So here in the material world happiness means sense gratification, that's all. So Prahlada Maharaja said, "The happiness of sense gratification, obtainable in any form of life..." The birds, beasts, human beings or even the demigods, cats, dogs -- everyone has got the happiness of sense gratification, namely eating, sleeping, sex and defense. That is obtainable everywhere. But the spiritual happiness, that is obtainable in human form of life. Therefore the human being from childhood... Kaumara acaret prajno dharman bhagavatan iha [SB 7.6.1]. From the very beginning of childhood. Why so early? Durlabham manusam janma. This human form of life is obtained after many, many births' evolutionary process. And adhruvam. There is no certainty that I shall live so many years. Although it is estimated that one is expected to live for at least hundred years -- that is estimation -- but at the present moment at least, nobody is living up to that. So even there is such indication, still, there is no guarantee. We can die at any moment. Adhruvam, but arthadam. Although it is adhruvam -- there is no guarantee -- but whatever period we get, we can utilize it for the best purpose. Arthadam. We can gain the ultimate goal of life, arthadam. That is... He is giving stress. Arthadam means spiritual realization. That is arthadam. Otherwise we remain like animals. The animal has also sense gratification process: how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex and how to defend. So sukham aindriyakam daitya. He is addressing his friends as daitya, "sons of the demons." He is addressing his father as "best of the demons." (laughs) There are two classes of men: deva and asura. Dvau bhuta-sargau loke daiva asura eva ca [Bg. 16.6]. In this material world there are... (aside:) Why not Dr. Wolfe may come here, bring his chair here? You can sit down there. You can bring your chair. So this sense gratification is available. Visayah khalu sarvatah yat. These are called visaya. Visaya means sense enjoyment. So visayah sarvatah syat. In any form of life these four principles are there. Eating arrangement is there. (aside:) Come on. Sleeping arrangement is there. The bird, he is not anxious about eating, sleeping, mating. It is already there. He has got a nest above the tree. At night he is very safe and sleeping nicely. And in the morning, he knows, somewhere there is some fruit, he'll get his food. He's not anxious. He goes anywhere. And for mating, the male and female bird are always together. The pigeons, they are having every hour, four times, five times, mating. So that arrangement is always there. And defense? They are on the ground. As soon as there is some man, immediately they go up, defense. So they know, everyone knows, how to enjoy this visaya-eating, sleeping, mating and defending. So the sastra says, visayah khalu sarvatah syat. "These four principles of necessities of the body are available anywhere." Either you are born as a human being or a cat or a dog or a bird or beast or demigod, these are available. So we should not bother about these things. The arrangement is already there. By the grace of God, things are already there. So Narada Muni said, "Don't bother about these things." Tasyaiva hetoh prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatam upary adhah [SB 1.5.18]. So we are wandering within this universe in different forms of life, in different planets, upary adhah, upari, adhah, upper planetary systems, down planetary system. We are having these facilities in different standard. The demigods, they have got their different standard of life, thousands and thousands of times better than ours. We have got better standard of life. Just like the Americans, they have got better standard of life than the Indians. So this higher standard, lower standard, but whatever standard may be, the thing, the taste of material enjoyment, is there. Sex intercourse in the human form of life and the sex intercourse of the dog on the street, the taste is the same. Taste is not changed. You put any eatable either in the gold pot or in the iron pot: the taste is the same. Therefore visayah khalu sarvatah syat. The taste of these sense enjoyable things are the same everywhere. Therefore he says sukham aindriyakam yat... What is that verse?
Prabhupada: Hmm. Deha-yogena dehinam. Sex means one body is being united with another body. Deha-yogena dehinam. That is enjoyment. So Prahlada Maharaja says, "These things are available anywhere, without any endeavor. It can be available anywhere." Read it.
Nalinikantha: Sarvatra labhyate.
Prabhupada: Sarvatra labhyate. Sarvatra means every form of life, in every place, either in the higher planetary or lower planetary or this, everywhere, sarvatra. Hmm?
Nalinikantha: Sarvatra labhyate daivad.
Prabhupada: Hmm. Daivat. Daivat means "by the superior arrangement." Superior arrangement... One has become human being, one has become cat, one has become dog, one has become demigod, one has become worm of the stool-daiva-yogena, by the arrangement of the supreme controller. But the material happiness is the same everywhere. Either one is worm in the stool or he is king in the heaven, the standard happiness is the same. Then?
Nalinikantha: Yatha duhkham ayatnatah
Prabhupada: Ah. And these things are available without any endeavor, as we get distressed condition of life without any endeavor. There are two things in this world: distress and happiness. So we don't call for distress, that "Malaria fever comes to me. I shall enjoy." Nobody says, but it comes. So similarly, this is distress. If distress comes by the superior arrangement, so happiness also will come by superior arrangement. So why should we bother about these things? Now tasyaiva hetoh praya... Therefore our endeavor should be for understanding ourself, self-realization, and our relationship with God or what is God, what is the nature. These things, athato brahma jijnasa, this is our business, not to waste our valuable time for searching after sense gratification. It is not human civilization, and that is..., that is demonic civilization. That is Prahlada Maharaja, stressing. Sukham aindriyakam yad... Read it?
Nalinikantha: Next one?
Prabhupada: No, no, this verse.
Nalinikantha:
Prabhupada: Hmm. Now translation and purport, read.
Nalinikantha: We just read that. Read again?
Prabhupada: The purport you have read?
Nalinikantha: Yes.
Prabhupada: Oh, then next verse.
Nalinikantha: No, I haven't read the purport.
Prabhupada: Oh, purport read.
Nalinikantha: "In the material world in any form of life there is some so-called happiness and so-called distress. No one invites distress in order to suffer, but still it comes. Similarly, even if we do not endeavor to obtain the advantages of material happiness, we shall obtain them automatically. This happiness and distress are obtainable in any form of life without endeavor. Thus there is no need to waste time and energy fighting against distress or working very hard for happiness. Our only business in the human form of life should be to revive our relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead and thus become qualified to return home, back to Godhead. Material happiness and distress come as soon as we accept a material body, regardless of what form. We cannot avoid such happiness and distress under any circumstances. The best use of human form of life, therefore, lies in reviving our relationship with the Supreme Lord Visnu."
Prabhupada: So, is there any question about this statement?
Arnold Weiss: Yes. What originally caused us to lose our relationship with Lord Krsna? I understand it is due to our desires, but how is this desire manifest?
Prabhupada: Relationship is not lost. Just like you... Either you are in the prison house or you are in the kingdom of the state, your relationship with government is there. It does not mean that when you are put into the prison house to suffer, it does not mean you have lost relationship, is it that?
Arnold Weiss: Yes, but why are we in the prison house?
Prabhupada: This is the cause: because you are criminal, you are put into the prison house, but the relationship continues.
Arnold Weiss: What have we done to make ourselves criminals?
Prabhupada: What you have done, you are put into prison?
Arnold Weiss: No, but what have we done to make ourselves criminals? What criminal acts have we performed?
Prabhupada: That you might have forgotten. Because your nature is to forget, you cannot immediately remember what you are doing exactly this time yesterday. That is your... You have forgotten, but suppose you, without any knowledge, you do something criminal. So you must be punished. You may not know. You cannot say in the court that "I did not know by committing this act I'll be punished." So you know or not know. You have done it; you must be punished. You may not know what you have done, but that does not mean you can avoid punishment.
Arnold Weiss: I understand that. It sounds reasonable to me. When we do this act for which we are punished, is it done in this life or done in some prior life?
Prabhupada: This life or prior life, because you are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. You are eternal.
Arnold Weiss: Would the prior life have to be an animal life?
Prabhupada: Yes, might be.
Arnold Weiss: Or could the prior life also be human life?
Prabhupada: No, not necessarily. There are 8,400,000 different forms of life, and you are one of them now, as you, as soul, you are the same; the body is changed. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said in the Second Chapter that "Arjuna, you, Me and all these persons who are assembled here, they existed in their previous lives, they are now existing, and they'll continue to exist." So our life is eternal. That is the first instruction in the Bhagavad-gita. Na jayate na mriyate va kadacit, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. This living entity, soul, is never born, neither he dies. It is simply change of body. Just like you just took this sweater. That means you are there, and you may give up the sweater again. So your body is changing like dress, but you are the same. So your... In previous... Just like now we are elderly gentleman, but we were a child. That's a fact. At that time the body was different. You are a young man; the body was different. And again you'll become old man like me, your body will be different. So in this life also we are experiencing going through different types of body. Similarly, after giving up this body, I'll have another body. Where is the difficulty to understand? Tatha dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati.
So dehantara-praptir, to accept another body, that is inevitable. Now, what kind of body you'll accept... You'll not accept. You'll be forced to accept, according to your work, karmana daiva-netrena [SB 3.31.1], by superior arrangement. After death, after giving up this body... Generally, at the time of death, your mental condition will carry you to a similar body. Yam yam vapi smaran bhavam tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. This is the general, but it is under superior arrangement. So we are changing this body continually, cycle of birth and death. That is material world. Therefore it is said that according to the body, the standard of happiness, distress, is there. So that will come automatically by nature's law. Therefore there is no need of endeavoring improving or subduing this kind of bodily comforts. That you cannot change; it is all destiny. You try for self-realization. What you are? Why you are in this body? Why you are suffering? These questions should be discussed. That is human life.
Arnold Weiss: God, of course, has put this entire human life picture together, and we, of course, cannot really understand His motives or reasons for this. But if there was some understanding that could be imparted to us... Is there? I ask the question, "Is there any understanding that can be imparted to us, to understand some of His motives for this?" Because it seems to me that we suffer a great deal to be able to turn towards Him, and yet in the Bhagavad-gita He says something like "One million will seek Me, but only one out of that million will find Me."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Arnold Weiss: So your chances are very, very little, and God, of course, understands this.
Prabhupada: No, chances are very little, and chance is immediate. Ordinarily, the chance is very little, but if you accept what God says, immediately... Just like in the Bhagavad-gita it is stated,
So by regular process, it will take many, many births, bahunam janmanam. When he is actually jnanavan, then he surrenders to God, and he understands vasudevah sarvam iti: [Bg. 7.19] "Everything is Vasudeva." Sa mahatma sudur... So if we are intelligent, we can take this verse seriously, that "Although it is very difficult to understand Vasudeva" -- it takes many, many births to understand this fact -- "but if one has to come to this point, vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19], why not do it immediately?" That is intelligence. So if we surrender to God immediately, the thing is very easy; it is a task of one minute only. But if you don't do that, then it is difficult. Go on, birth after birth, birth after birth.
Arnold Weiss: Why... I understand that. It seems very acceptable in an intuitive sense, but then the mind sort of questions some of these things.
Prabhupada: Is there water? Bring it. Hmm, yes?
Arnold Weiss: The mind questions some of these things, and these questions kind of flow naturally, and one wonders why the structure of the universe or of the world has been made in such a fashion that it takes a great deal of misery and difficulty for us to turn towards God.
Prabhupada: Because he doesn't want to turn towards God.
Arnold Weiss: Because we don't want to?
Prabhupada: Yes. Just like God says that "You surrender unto Me." And who is going to surrender? He says clearly, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66], and who is doing that? So why he'll not suffer? He must suffer.
He would not do that. He'll try to become himself God: "No, why shall I surrender to God? I am God." He is dog, he is kicked even by dog, and he's still thinking, "I am God." This is the difficulty.
Arnold Weiss: So as I understand it-tell me if I interpret it correctly-we're being put more or less into our place, being shown where we really are in relation with God through our suffering.
Prabhupada: Yes. God is giving you the remedy, that "You surrender to Me, you are immediately relieved from all sufferings." But we shall not do that. So what is the alternative than suffering? This is common sense.
Arnold Weiss: This is a lesson in learning through contrast, then.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Arnold Weiss: This is a lesson in learning through contrast, the contrast of suffering versus not suffering.
Prabhupada: Yes. Suffering, this is only suffering. This material world is only suffering, but under illusion we are accepting suffering as enjoyment.
Arnold Weiss: Is this because the illusion that we see is a representation of the spiritual world in a sense?
Prabhupada: Illusion is another punishment. We wanted to forget God, and God's illusory energy is giving him facility to forget God. This is called illusory energy.
Arnold Weiss: In the beginning, when we were first part of God, as I understand from reading Bhagavad-gita and some of your other translations and purports, which I enjoy very much -- I thank you for making them available -- I understand that our souls are also part of God, as a drop of water is part of that ocean. How... Is there any knowledge or information of how we incurred this first separation from God?
Prabhupada: Separation... Generally, when we want to become God, there is separation.
Arnold Weiss: A rebellion.
Prabhupada: You cannot... There is one God, and if you want to become God, you are immediately driven away: "Just become God in the material world. Go there and try to become God."
Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupada? There is a parallel in the Bible that Lucifer broke away from God because He wanted to be God.
Prabhupada: That's it.
Arnold Weiss: I was thinking that too.
Prabhupada: (laughs) This rascaldom... This rascaldom makes him a dog. Instead of God, he become a dog. So this rascaldom is going on, that "I am God." For this purpose he's suffering, and still, he wants to continue it. Nobody can become God; God is one. Ekam brahma dvitiyam nasti. So how we can become God? But that endeavor is going on.
Arnold Weiss: As I understand it, since God is omnipresent, omnipotent, all-knowledgeable and all-remembering, then He is in a position where He can know what our choices are going to be, and what is going to happen with us in the future.
Prabhupada: No, no. You make a choice; you can change it. But as soon as you change it, God knows what you are going to do. This is very common sense. Suppose you are honest man; I entrust you with something. But as soon as you become dishonest, immediately I withdraw my interest (entrust?), because I know what you'll do. So you have got little independence. You are put into certain position, but you can change it at anytime. So your position is, actually, you are eternal servant of God. As soon as you change it, then your suffering begins. In the Bhagavad-gita you'll find, after instructing Bhagavad-gita to Arjuna, Krsna is asking, "Now I have instructed you everything. Now whatever you like, you can do." Yathechasi tatha kuru. That independence you have got. Krsna, or God, does not interfere with the little independence He has given to us. And because we are part and parcel of God, God is fully independent, so we have got little portion of independence. So by misusing that independence, we can desire to become God, and we suffer.
Arnold Weiss: Isn't it within the nature of our souls to have...
Prabhupada: That is the nature, little independence. That is the nature. You can properly use independence, and you can improperly use. That is the meaning of independence. That you can use it improperly. Then you suffer. That is the meaning of independence. If it is that I have got independence -- I cannot use it otherwise -- that is not independence.
Arnold Weiss: So that small, miniscule amount of independence we have represents our free will in making decisions and choices towards either returning toward God or trying to go on our own way, which is the origin of our original position, being in this material world. Very interesting.
Prabhupada: So therefore Krsna said that "The most confidential part of knowledge I am giving you, Arjuna, because you are My very intimate friend, that you give up your nonsense plans." Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You just surrender to Me. This is the most confidential knowledge. You can misuse your independence, but I am instructing you most confidentially because you are My intimate. Don't make plans like rascals. You just surrender to Me. This is confidential." Or in other words, "Don't foolishly try to become God. You remain a servant. Surrender to..." This is the ultimate instruction. Find out in the Eighteenth Chapter, sarva-guhyatamam. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru.
Danavir:
man-mana bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yaji mam namaskuru
mam evaisyasi satyam te
pratijane priyo 'si me
[Bg. 18.65]
Prabhupada: Where it is, which chapter?
Danavir: Eighteenth chapter.
Prabhupada: Yes. There, sarva-guhyatamam? Before that, there is another verse, sarva-guhyatamam.
Nalinikantha:
sarva-guhyatamam bhuyah
srnu me paramam vacah
isto 'si me drdham iti
tato vaksyami te hitam
"Because you are My very dear friend, I am speaking to you the most confidential part of knowledge. Hear this from Me, for it is for your benefit." Purport. "The Lord has given Arjuna confidential knowledge of the Supersoul within everyone's heart, and now He is giving the most confidential part of this knowledge: just surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. At the end of the Ninth Chapter He has said, 'Just always think of Me.' The same instruction is repeated here to stress the essence of the teachings of Bhagavad-gita. This essence is not understood by a common man, but by one who is actually very dear to Krsna, a pure devotee of Krsna. This is the most important instruction in all Vedic literature. What Krsna is saying in this connection is the most essential part of knowledge, and it should be carried out not only by Arjuna but by all living entities."
Prabhupada: Then next verse.
Nalinikantha:
man-mana bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yaji mam namaskuru
mam evaisyasi satyam te
pratijane priyo 'si me
[Bg. 18.65]
"Always think of Me and become My devotee..."
Prabhupada: So instead of becoming devotee, he wants to become God. And that is the problem. But it is the most confidential part of knowledge. Instead of carrying out the orders of God, he wants to order God. You see? Even in the lower stages of devotion, that mentality continues, that "God is order-supplier. If God carries my order, then I accept God. Otherwise I reject Him." In Germany... One of my German Godbrothers, he told me in 1935 that in the last world war, many people became atheists. They went to the church and prayed, especially women, "My husband may come back," "My brother may come back," or "My father may come back." Because all men went to the war field, and the women were there, they prayed in the churches. But nobody came back, and they became atheists. That means they took God as order-supplier. They ordered God, "Return my father. Return my brother. Return my husband," and God did not return. "Ah, there is no God. I don't care." This is going on. God is order-supplier. But our philosophy is God is not order-supplier; we are order-carriers of God. Anukulyena krsnanusilanam bhaktir uttama [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Just like Arjuna became. He became carrier of order of Krsna. He did not like to fight, to kill the family members, but when he understood that Krsna wants it, then he..., "Yes." Karisye vacanam tava [Bg. 18.73]. Find out this verse, nasto mohah smrtir labhda tvat-prasadan madhusudanah.
Nalinikantha:
nasto mohah smrtir labdha
tvat-prasadan mayacyuta
sthito 'smi gata-sandehah
karisye vacanam tava
[Bg. 18.73]
Prabhupada: Tava. Sthito 'smi gata-sandehah: "Now I am situated in the real position, without any doubt." What is that position? Karisye vacanam tava: "I shall carry out your order. I'll not ask you to become my order-supplier, but I shall carry out your order." And this is perfection of Gita knowledge. And he did it. He did not like to kill his family members, but he did it. He killed Bhismadeva. He killed his teacher, Dronacarya. He killed his nephews, brothers, everyone. Karisye vacanam tava: "You want it? All right, never mind. Even though I don't want it, I must do it." That is Krsna consciousness. Karisye vacanam tava. Anukulyena krsnanu-silanam bhaktir uttama [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. "I should not place any motive before God. I shall carry out the motive of God" -- that is bhakti. So what is that confi...? Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65].
Nalinikantha: Mam evaisyasi satyam te pratijane priyo 'si me: "Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me."
Prabhupada: Now, if He is ordering to become His devotee, how can I try to become another God, competitor? This is the folly, and for this we are suffering. He asked him, "You become My devotee." And I want to become another God, competitor. And therefore we are suffering. We cannot become another God. That is not possible. But artificially you are trying. Therefore you are suffering. Anything you try artificially, you'll suffer. If you try for a thing artificially, then what is the result? Result will be suffering and disappointment. Therefore sastra says, tasyaiva hetoh prayeteta kovidah. Don't try for such things... You have tried all through in different forms of life. You have failed. So don't try for that. But try to become servant of God. Then your life will be successful. Because in the material world the endeavor is how to become God in different varieties: how to become president, how to become minister, how to become master, how to become very strong man, very wealthy man, very beautiful man, so on, so on, so on, up to -- when everything fails -- then how to become God. When everything fails, then, ultimately, "Now I shall become God." The same disease is there, how to become big, now the biggest. And that is the same disease in a different form. Therefore, Caitanya-caritamrta, it is said, krsna-bhakta-niskama, ataeva santa, bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kami-'asanta' [Cc. Madhya 19.149]. Bhukti means material enjoyment. Karmis... Just like ordinary men, they are working so hard day and night. This airplane is running here and there, (loud airplane passing over) day and night, carrying karmis. So this is bhukti. How to enjoy this material world fully, this is called bhukti. So because they are after bhukti, how there can be peace? He has to work very hard. And mukti, those who are jnanis, they are trying to become one with God. So that is also very difficult. But still, there are so many sadhanas. That is also... But the desire is there. The karmis are desiring to enjoy material world, and the jnanis are desiring to become the supreme. That is also another desire. So bhukti mukti siddhi. Yogis, they are trying to achieve some mystic power. And if you attain some mystic power, without airplane if you can fly... The yogis can do that. Or if you can walk on the water... The yogis can do it. This is called laghima-siddhi, to become light, very light. So that... By yoga practice you can do that. So anima, laghima, siddhi, prapti, mahima -- there are so many siddhis. So siddhi-kami, they are also desiring something. And the jnanis, they are also desiring something, and karmis, they are also desiring something. The bhakta, he does not desire anything. Therefore peacefulness is for him, because he does not desire anything. He does not ask God anything. That is sunyam. Anyabhilasita-sunyam [BRS 1.1.11] -- no motive. That "I am becoming a devotee for this purpose" -- no, that is not pure devotee. "I am eternal servant of God, so it is my duty to serve Him, that's all." That is peace. And so long he'll desire, then he'll not have any peace. That is not possible.
Indian lady: This siddhis, do they harm sometimes humanity with their siddhis also?
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Indian lady: With the siddhis... One who has attained all these siddhis, all these powers, do they harm humanity sometimes?
Prabhupada: Anything without devotion to the Lord is harmful to the humanity. Anything, either karmi or jnani or siddhi, it is all harmful, because all these things will keep him aloof from God. His mission is that he is separated from God. His mission should be how to go back to home, back to Godhead. So all these things -- bhukti, mukti, siddhi -- will keep him aloof from God. Therefore it is harmful. It will not allow him to go nearer to God, and that is harmful. That is the greatest harm. Being aloof from God, he's suffering. So these bhukti, mukti, siddhi will keep him aloof from God. He'll falsely think that "I am God." Yogis, if they can show some mystic yogic power, then naturally foolish people will think him that "Oh, here is God." And he's satisfied with that. He's not God, but foolish people will adore him as God, and he's satisfied. That means he keeps himself aloof from God. After this mystic power is gone, then he is no more valuable. So anything which keeps one aloof from God, that is harmful.
Indian lady: But if they misuse these mystic powers, then they cannot stay as a mystic.
Prabhupada: And why he's after mystic power? What is the use of mystic power. Suppose if you have got this mystic power -- you can walk over the water -- so what benefit you'll get? There is a boat also. It can walk on the river or on the ocean Does it mean his all questions are solved? Suppose you can walk over the water. So I cannot walk. I take a boat and pay him four annas. So what is the difference between you and me? It is a question of four annas, that's all (laughter). So why do you endeavor for this rascaldom, and make some jugglery to the foolish people? If you have to walk over the water, you can pay four annas to the boatman and can do it. Why for this so many mystic power?
Bharadraja: Kaitava.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Bharadraja: This is all kaitava-dharma.
Prabhupada: (laughs) Yes, kaitava. You do not get any more benefit. After practicing yoga for ten years, twenty years, if you learn this art how to walk over water, so you can show the magic to the foolish man. But intelligent man will say, "It is a question of four annas. I can walk. Why shall I waste my time, twenty years, for learning this art?"
Indian lady: Sometimes these mystic powers, they use on human beings...
Prabhupada: This is one of the mystic powers which amaze people, foolish people.
Indian lady: But they can use on human beings also...
Prabhupada: What human being?
Indian lady: In their life or...
Prabhupada: No, no, suppose human being learns how to walk over water. Is that the solution of all problems? So what is the benefit to the human being? Suppose you have this mystic yogic power, you can walk over the water, and you teach the whole human society how to walk over the water. (laughter) What is the benefit there?
Indian lady: But for some creation of something or so many things they show...
Prabhupada: That means you have no clear idea, "something, something." Actually there is no benefit. You do not know what is benefit.
Indian lady: Can anybody create anything with this mystic power, any idol of God or any idol of devotee or anything, and then turn them to..., just a good mission to turn them to God?
Prabhupada: What is that mission?
Indian lady: Well, er...
Prabhupada: Practically come to the... Suppose if you learn how to walk, or how to fly in the air. Nowadays they are flying, the big, big airplane flying. They have not learned this mystic power. By machine they are doing that. Suppose if you fly by mystic power from here, Los Angeles, to Bombay or Nairobi, and another man flys over by the plane. Then where is the difference? It is a question of pounds or dollars. So what benefit do we get? Why do you give so much importance, who is flying or walking on the water? Better utilize the time to realize God. Srama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. This is called in the sastra, that anything you do, if it does not awaken your God consciousness, then it is srama eva hi kevalam. It is simply working for nothing, waste of time. Srama eva hi kevalam. (aside:) Hmm, give him some prasada. And others, what about? No, you can take this... Prasada. Others, them also. (Hindi)
dharmah svanusthitah pumsam
visvaksena-kathasu yah
notpadayed yadi ratim
srama eva hi kevalam
[SB 1.2.8]
If we do not awaken our God consciousness, anything you do, that is all waste of time. That is wanted in the human form of life, to revive our God consciousness. That is the most important business. So, any other questions?
Arnold Weiss: I do, but I can't take all your evening. It would be unfair of me if I did, but I have a lot of questions.
Prabhupada: So we shall also go. Distribute this prasadam to everyone.
Devotees: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada. [break]
Prabhupada: If you cannot do anything, you can ask anybody, "Become a devotee of God." Three words: "Just become a devotee of God." Anyone can, even a child can do. It is so easy. Ya idam paramam guhyam mad-bhaktesv abhidhasyati [Bg 18.68]. Krsna says that "Anyone who preaches this gospel, he is the dearmost person to Me." So what is that gospel? Krsna says, sarva-dharman partiyajya mam ekam saranam vraja: "You just surrender unto Me." So if we go to every home, every person, and say "Just you surrender to God, Krsna," that is our preaching.
Devotees: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada. (end)
Nalinikantha:
sukham aindriyakam daitya
deha-yogena dehinam
sarvatra labhyate daivad
yatha duhkham ayatnatah
Prabhupada: Allow some Indian dress may come in.
Nalinikantha: "Prahlada Maharaja continued: My dear friends born of demoniac families, the happiness perceived with reference to the sense objects..."
Prabhupada: He is addressing his friends, "born of demoniac families, my dear friends." (laughs) Give him one chair, Dr. Wolfe. Yes, that's nice. He used to address his father also as "the best of the demons." Once his father asked him, "My dear son, what nice lesson you have learned in the school? Please tell me." So he addressed his father, asura-varya, "the best of the asuras."
tat sadhu manye 'sura-varya dehinam
sada samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat
hitvatma-patam grham andha-kupam
vanam gato yad dharim asrayeta
[SB 7.5.5]
So, "My dear father," not "father," "the best of the asuras," asurya-varya, the chief asura, "in my opinion," tat sadhu manye, "I think, so far I have studied," tat sadhu manye, "I think that is very nice, very honest profession of occupation for persons who are always full of anxieties." In the material world everyone is full of anxiety. That's a fact. Even in your country, the President Nixon, he was full of anxiety while he was in office, and now, out of his office, he's also full of anxiety. So just see. This is the best man in your country, president, the foremost man. So if he is full of anxiety, the others naturally... Everyone. So what is the cause of the anxiety? Asad-grahat. Sada samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat. Asat means that does not exist, "not eternal," it is just opposite. Eternal is called sat, om tat sat, and asat means just the opposite. So here in this material world everything is asat. Even this body is asat; it will not exist. And what to speak of other things with reference to the body. Everything is asat. Anything material is asat; it will not stay, either these trees or this land or this world or this country or this, anything, asat. So asad-grahat, on account of accepting things which are asat, not permanent, they are always full of anxiety. Just see how nicely explained, why one is full of anxiety. The reason is, he has accepted something which will not stay, endure, and he has accepted: "This is all in all. My country is all in all. My family is all in all. This body, all in all." But it will not stay. That's a practical fact. But they are sticking to these things. Deha-patra-kalatradisu atma-sainyesu asatsu api. There is another verse where this word is used, asat. Everyone is thinking, "I am secure. I am born in a very good nation, state. My body is very strong. My family members are very nice, well-educated. I have got good bank balance, and I have got respectable position," so on, so on. He is thinking, "These things will save me." This world is struggle for existence, and when there is struggle, there are some soldiers. So atma-sainyesu asatsu api. One is thinking that "These are my soldiers. I'll own victory in the struggle for existence." But pramattah tasya nidhanam pasyann api na pasyati. But he's so mad, he knows that these things will be vanquished, and still, he does not see to it. Pasyann api na pasyati. Therefore his anxiety. So Prahlada Maharaja is, this version, sada samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat: "On account of accepting nonpermanent things as permanent, therefore he's full of anxiety." Sada samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat. Then what is the remedy? The remedy is hitvatma-ghatam grham andha-kupam: "This andha-kupam, dark well of ignorance, one must give up." Then vanam gato yad dharim asrayeta: [SB 7.5.5] "He must go to vana." When one goes to vana, it is called vanaprastha. So after family life, according to Vedic civilization, one has to accept vanaprastha life. And when one is fully prepared, he takes sannyasa after vanaprastha life. So vanam gatah means one should prepare by going to the forest for the next life of renounced order of life. That is human civilization: brahmacari, grhasta, vanaprastha and sannyasa. Sannyasa means full engaged in Krsna consciousness. Vanam gato yad dharim asrayeta [SB 7.5.5]. Otherwise, what is the use of going to the forest? In the forest there are many monkeys also. So that kind of life is not harim asrayeta. He must take shelter of the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari. That is om tat sat. And then he'll be happy. That is Vedic civilization. So Prahlada Maharaja is teaching to the boys, his class friends. He was five-years-old boy. Naturally, his friends are also of the same age, and he's teaching this bhagavata-dharma. Read this.
Nalinikantha: "The happiness perceived with reference to the sense objects by contact with the body can be obtained in any form of life, according to one's past fruitive activities. Such happiness is automatically obtained without endeavor, just as we obtain distress."
Prabhupada: Thank you. So here in the material world happiness means sense gratification, that's all. So Prahlada Maharaja said, "The happiness of sense gratification, obtainable in any form of life..." The birds, beasts, human beings or even the demigods, cats, dogs -- everyone has got the happiness of sense gratification, namely eating, sleeping, sex and defense. That is obtainable everywhere. But the spiritual happiness, that is obtainable in human form of life. Therefore the human being from childhood... Kaumara acaret prajno dharman bhagavatan iha [SB 7.6.1]. From the very beginning of childhood. Why so early? Durlabham manusam janma. This human form of life is obtained after many, many births' evolutionary process. And adhruvam. There is no certainty that I shall live so many years. Although it is estimated that one is expected to live for at least hundred years -- that is estimation -- but at the present moment at least, nobody is living up to that. So even there is such indication, still, there is no guarantee. We can die at any moment. Adhruvam, but arthadam. Although it is adhruvam -- there is no guarantee -- but whatever period we get, we can utilize it for the best purpose. Arthadam. We can gain the ultimate goal of life, arthadam. That is... He is giving stress. Arthadam means spiritual realization. That is arthadam. Otherwise we remain like animals. The animal has also sense gratification process: how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex and how to defend. So sukham aindriyakam daitya. He is addressing his friends as daitya, "sons of the demons." He is addressing his father as "best of the demons." (laughs) There are two classes of men: deva and asura. Dvau bhuta-sargau loke daiva asura eva ca [Bg. 16.6]. In this material world there are... (aside:) Why not Dr. Wolfe may come here, bring his chair here? You can sit down there. You can bring your chair. So this sense gratification is available. Visayah khalu sarvatah yat. These are called visaya. Visaya means sense enjoyment. So visayah sarvatah syat. In any form of life these four principles are there. Eating arrangement is there. (aside:) Come on. Sleeping arrangement is there. The bird, he is not anxious about eating, sleeping, mating. It is already there. He has got a nest above the tree. At night he is very safe and sleeping nicely. And in the morning, he knows, somewhere there is some fruit, he'll get his food. He's not anxious. He goes anywhere. And for mating, the male and female bird are always together. The pigeons, they are having every hour, four times, five times, mating. So that arrangement is always there. And defense? They are on the ground. As soon as there is some man, immediately they go up, defense. So they know, everyone knows, how to enjoy this visaya-eating, sleeping, mating and defending. So the sastra says, visayah khalu sarvatah syat. "These four principles of necessities of the body are available anywhere." Either you are born as a human being or a cat or a dog or a bird or beast or demigod, these are available. So we should not bother about these things. The arrangement is already there. By the grace of God, things are already there. So Narada Muni said, "Don't bother about these things." Tasyaiva hetoh prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatam upary adhah [SB 1.5.18]. So we are wandering within this universe in different forms of life, in different planets, upary adhah, upari, adhah, upper planetary systems, down planetary system. We are having these facilities in different standard. The demigods, they have got their different standard of life, thousands and thousands of times better than ours. We have got better standard of life. Just like the Americans, they have got better standard of life than the Indians. So this higher standard, lower standard, but whatever standard may be, the thing, the taste of material enjoyment, is there. Sex intercourse in the human form of life and the sex intercourse of the dog on the street, the taste is the same. Taste is not changed. You put any eatable either in the gold pot or in the iron pot: the taste is the same. Therefore visayah khalu sarvatah syat. The taste of these sense enjoyable things are the same everywhere. Therefore he says sukham aindriyakam yat... What is that verse?
Nalinikantha: Sukham aindriyakam daitya deha-yogena dehinam.
Prabhupada: Hmm. Deha-yogena dehinam. Sex means one body is being united with another body. Deha-yogena dehinam. That is enjoyment. So Prahlada Maharaja says, "These things are available anywhere, without any endeavor. It can be available anywhere." Read it.
Nalinikantha: Sarvatra labhyate.
Prabhupada: Sarvatra labhyate. Sarvatra means every form of life, in every place, either in the higher planetary or lower planetary or this, everywhere, sarvatra. Hmm?
Nalinikantha: Sarvatra labhyate daivad.
Prabhupada: Hmm. Daivat. Daivat means "by the superior arrangement." Superior arrangement... One has become human being, one has become cat, one has become dog, one has become demigod, one has become worm of the stool-daiva-yogena, by the arrangement of the supreme controller. But the material happiness is the same everywhere. Either one is worm in the stool or he is king in the heaven, the standard happiness is the same. Then?
Nalinikantha: Yatha duhkham ayatnatah
Prabhupada: Ah. And these things are available without any endeavor, as we get distressed condition of life without any endeavor. There are two things in this world: distress and happiness. So we don't call for distress, that "Malaria fever comes to me. I shall enjoy." Nobody says, but it comes. So similarly, this is distress. If distress comes by the superior arrangement, so happiness also will come by superior arrangement. So why should we bother about these things? Now tasyaiva hetoh praya... Therefore our endeavor should be for understanding ourself, self-realization, and our relationship with God or what is God, what is the nature. These things, athato brahma jijnasa, this is our business, not to waste our valuable time for searching after sense gratification. It is not human civilization, and that is..., that is demonic civilization. That is Prahlada Maharaja, stressing. Sukham aindriyakam yad... Read it?
Nalinikantha: Next one?
Prabhupada: No, no, this verse.
Nalinikantha:
sukham aindriyakam daitya
deha-yogena dehinam
sarvatra labhyate daivad
yatah duhkham ayatnatah
Nalinikantha: We just read that. Read again?
Prabhupada: The purport you have read?
Nalinikantha: Yes.
Prabhupada: Oh, then next verse.
Nalinikantha: No, I haven't read the purport.
Prabhupada: Oh, purport read.
Nalinikantha: "In the material world in any form of life there is some so-called happiness and so-called distress. No one invites distress in order to suffer, but still it comes. Similarly, even if we do not endeavor to obtain the advantages of material happiness, we shall obtain them automatically. This happiness and distress are obtainable in any form of life without endeavor. Thus there is no need to waste time and energy fighting against distress or working very hard for happiness. Our only business in the human form of life should be to revive our relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead and thus become qualified to return home, back to Godhead. Material happiness and distress come as soon as we accept a material body, regardless of what form. We cannot avoid such happiness and distress under any circumstances. The best use of human form of life, therefore, lies in reviving our relationship with the Supreme Lord Visnu."
Prabhupada: So, is there any question about this statement?
Arnold Weiss: Yes. What originally caused us to lose our relationship with Lord Krsna? I understand it is due to our desires, but how is this desire manifest?
Prabhupada: Relationship is not lost. Just like you... Either you are in the prison house or you are in the kingdom of the state, your relationship with government is there. It does not mean that when you are put into the prison house to suffer, it does not mean you have lost relationship, is it that?
Arnold Weiss: Yes, but why are we in the prison house?
Prabhupada: This is the cause: because you are criminal, you are put into the prison house, but the relationship continues.
Arnold Weiss: What have we done to make ourselves criminals?
Prabhupada: What you have done, you are put into prison?
Arnold Weiss: No, but what have we done to make ourselves criminals? What criminal acts have we performed?
Prabhupada: That you might have forgotten. Because your nature is to forget, you cannot immediately remember what you are doing exactly this time yesterday. That is your... You have forgotten, but suppose you, without any knowledge, you do something criminal. So you must be punished. You may not know. You cannot say in the court that "I did not know by committing this act I'll be punished." So you know or not know. You have done it; you must be punished. You may not know what you have done, but that does not mean you can avoid punishment.
Arnold Weiss: I understand that. It sounds reasonable to me. When we do this act for which we are punished, is it done in this life or done in some prior life?
Prabhupada: This life or prior life, because you are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. You are eternal.
Arnold Weiss: Would the prior life have to be an animal life?
Prabhupada: Yes, might be.
Arnold Weiss: Or could the prior life also be human life?
Prabhupada: No, not necessarily. There are 8,400,000 different forms of life, and you are one of them now, as you, as soul, you are the same; the body is changed. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said in the Second Chapter that "Arjuna, you, Me and all these persons who are assembled here, they existed in their previous lives, they are now existing, and they'll continue to exist." So our life is eternal. That is the first instruction in the Bhagavad-gita. Na jayate na mriyate va kadacit, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. This living entity, soul, is never born, neither he dies. It is simply change of body. Just like you just took this sweater. That means you are there, and you may give up the sweater again. So your body is changing like dress, but you are the same. So your... In previous... Just like now we are elderly gentleman, but we were a child. That's a fact. At that time the body was different. You are a young man; the body was different. And again you'll become old man like me, your body will be different. So in this life also we are experiencing going through different types of body. Similarly, after giving up this body, I'll have another body. Where is the difficulty to understand? Tatha dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati.
dehino 'smin yatha dehe
kaumaram yauvanam jara
tatha dehantara-praptir
dhiras tatra na muhyati
[Bg. 2.13]
So dehantara-praptir, to accept another body, that is inevitable. Now, what kind of body you'll accept... You'll not accept. You'll be forced to accept, according to your work, karmana daiva-netrena [SB 3.31.1], by superior arrangement. After death, after giving up this body... Generally, at the time of death, your mental condition will carry you to a similar body. Yam yam vapi smaran bhavam tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. This is the general, but it is under superior arrangement. So we are changing this body continually, cycle of birth and death. That is material world. Therefore it is said that according to the body, the standard of happiness, distress, is there. So that will come automatically by nature's law. Therefore there is no need of endeavoring improving or subduing this kind of bodily comforts. That you cannot change; it is all destiny. You try for self-realization. What you are? Why you are in this body? Why you are suffering? These questions should be discussed. That is human life.
Arnold Weiss: God, of course, has put this entire human life picture together, and we, of course, cannot really understand His motives or reasons for this. But if there was some understanding that could be imparted to us... Is there? I ask the question, "Is there any understanding that can be imparted to us, to understand some of His motives for this?" Because it seems to me that we suffer a great deal to be able to turn towards Him, and yet in the Bhagavad-gita He says something like "One million will seek Me, but only one out of that million will find Me."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Arnold Weiss: So your chances are very, very little, and God, of course, understands this.
Prabhupada: No, chances are very little, and chance is immediate. Ordinarily, the chance is very little, but if you accept what God says, immediately... Just like in the Bhagavad-gita it is stated,
bahunam janmanam ante
jnanavan mam prapadyate
vasudevah sarvam iti
sa mahatma sudurlabhah
[Bg. 7.19]
So by regular process, it will take many, many births, bahunam janmanam. When he is actually jnanavan, then he surrenders to God, and he understands vasudevah sarvam iti: [Bg. 7.19] "Everything is Vasudeva." Sa mahatma sudur... So if we are intelligent, we can take this verse seriously, that "Although it is very difficult to understand Vasudeva" -- it takes many, many births to understand this fact -- "but if one has to come to this point, vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19], why not do it immediately?" That is intelligence. So if we surrender to God immediately, the thing is very easy; it is a task of one minute only. But if you don't do that, then it is difficult. Go on, birth after birth, birth after birth.
Arnold Weiss: Why... I understand that. It seems very acceptable in an intuitive sense, but then the mind sort of questions some of these things.
Prabhupada: Is there water? Bring it. Hmm, yes?
Arnold Weiss: The mind questions some of these things, and these questions kind of flow naturally, and one wonders why the structure of the universe or of the world has been made in such a fashion that it takes a great deal of misery and difficulty for us to turn towards God.
Prabhupada: Because he doesn't want to turn towards God.
Arnold Weiss: Because we don't want to?
Prabhupada: Yes. Just like God says that "You surrender unto Me." And who is going to surrender? He says clearly, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66], and who is doing that? So why he'll not suffer? He must suffer.
daivi hy esa gunamayi
mama maya duratyaya
mam eva ye prapadyante
mayam etam taranti te
[Bg. 7.14]
Arnold Weiss: So as I understand it-tell me if I interpret it correctly-we're being put more or less into our place, being shown where we really are in relation with God through our suffering.
Prabhupada: Yes. God is giving you the remedy, that "You surrender to Me, you are immediately relieved from all sufferings." But we shall not do that. So what is the alternative than suffering? This is common sense.
Arnold Weiss: This is a lesson in learning through contrast, then.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Arnold Weiss: This is a lesson in learning through contrast, the contrast of suffering versus not suffering.
Prabhupada: Yes. Suffering, this is only suffering. This material world is only suffering, but under illusion we are accepting suffering as enjoyment.
Arnold Weiss: Is this because the illusion that we see is a representation of the spiritual world in a sense?
Prabhupada: Illusion is another punishment. We wanted to forget God, and God's illusory energy is giving him facility to forget God. This is called illusory energy.
Arnold Weiss: In the beginning, when we were first part of God, as I understand from reading Bhagavad-gita and some of your other translations and purports, which I enjoy very much -- I thank you for making them available -- I understand that our souls are also part of God, as a drop of water is part of that ocean. How... Is there any knowledge or information of how we incurred this first separation from God?
Prabhupada: Separation... Generally, when we want to become God, there is separation.
Arnold Weiss: A rebellion.
Prabhupada: You cannot... There is one God, and if you want to become God, you are immediately driven away: "Just become God in the material world. Go there and try to become God."
Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupada? There is a parallel in the Bible that Lucifer broke away from God because He wanted to be God.
Prabhupada: That's it.
Arnold Weiss: I was thinking that too.
Prabhupada: (laughs) This rascaldom... This rascaldom makes him a dog. Instead of God, he become a dog. So this rascaldom is going on, that "I am God." For this purpose he's suffering, and still, he wants to continue it. Nobody can become God; God is one. Ekam brahma dvitiyam nasti. So how we can become God? But that endeavor is going on.
Arnold Weiss: As I understand it, since God is omnipresent, omnipotent, all-knowledgeable and all-remembering, then He is in a position where He can know what our choices are going to be, and what is going to happen with us in the future.
Prabhupada: No, no. You make a choice; you can change it. But as soon as you change it, God knows what you are going to do. This is very common sense. Suppose you are honest man; I entrust you with something. But as soon as you become dishonest, immediately I withdraw my interest (entrust?), because I know what you'll do. So you have got little independence. You are put into certain position, but you can change it at anytime. So your position is, actually, you are eternal servant of God. As soon as you change it, then your suffering begins. In the Bhagavad-gita you'll find, after instructing Bhagavad-gita to Arjuna, Krsna is asking, "Now I have instructed you everything. Now whatever you like, you can do." Yathechasi tatha kuru. That independence you have got. Krsna, or God, does not interfere with the little independence He has given to us. And because we are part and parcel of God, God is fully independent, so we have got little portion of independence. So by misusing that independence, we can desire to become God, and we suffer.
Arnold Weiss: Isn't it within the nature of our souls to have...
Prabhupada: That is the nature, little independence. That is the nature. You can properly use independence, and you can improperly use. That is the meaning of independence. That you can use it improperly. Then you suffer. That is the meaning of independence. If it is that I have got independence -- I cannot use it otherwise -- that is not independence.
Arnold Weiss: So that small, miniscule amount of independence we have represents our free will in making decisions and choices towards either returning toward God or trying to go on our own way, which is the origin of our original position, being in this material world. Very interesting.
Prabhupada: So therefore Krsna said that "The most confidential part of knowledge I am giving you, Arjuna, because you are My very intimate friend, that you give up your nonsense plans." Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You just surrender to Me. This is the most confidential knowledge. You can misuse your independence, but I am instructing you most confidentially because you are My intimate. Don't make plans like rascals. You just surrender to Me. This is confidential." Or in other words, "Don't foolishly try to become God. You remain a servant. Surrender to..." This is the ultimate instruction. Find out in the Eighteenth Chapter, sarva-guhyatamam. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru.
Danavir:
man-mana bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yaji mam namaskuru
mam evaisyasi satyam te
pratijane priyo 'si me
[Bg. 18.65]
Prabhupada: Where it is, which chapter?
Danavir: Eighteenth chapter.
Prabhupada: Yes. There, sarva-guhyatamam? Before that, there is another verse, sarva-guhyatamam.
Nalinikantha:
sarva-guhyatamam bhuyah
srnu me paramam vacah
isto 'si me drdham iti
tato vaksyami te hitam
"Because you are My very dear friend, I am speaking to you the most confidential part of knowledge. Hear this from Me, for it is for your benefit." Purport. "The Lord has given Arjuna confidential knowledge of the Supersoul within everyone's heart, and now He is giving the most confidential part of this knowledge: just surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. At the end of the Ninth Chapter He has said, 'Just always think of Me.' The same instruction is repeated here to stress the essence of the teachings of Bhagavad-gita. This essence is not understood by a common man, but by one who is actually very dear to Krsna, a pure devotee of Krsna. This is the most important instruction in all Vedic literature. What Krsna is saying in this connection is the most essential part of knowledge, and it should be carried out not only by Arjuna but by all living entities."
Prabhupada: Then next verse.
Nalinikantha:
man-mana bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yaji mam namaskuru
mam evaisyasi satyam te
pratijane priyo 'si me
[Bg. 18.65]
"Always think of Me and become My devotee..."
Prabhupada: So instead of becoming devotee, he wants to become God. And that is the problem. But it is the most confidential part of knowledge. Instead of carrying out the orders of God, he wants to order God. You see? Even in the lower stages of devotion, that mentality continues, that "God is order-supplier. If God carries my order, then I accept God. Otherwise I reject Him." In Germany... One of my German Godbrothers, he told me in 1935 that in the last world war, many people became atheists. They went to the church and prayed, especially women, "My husband may come back," "My brother may come back," or "My father may come back." Because all men went to the war field, and the women were there, they prayed in the churches. But nobody came back, and they became atheists. That means they took God as order-supplier. They ordered God, "Return my father. Return my brother. Return my husband," and God did not return. "Ah, there is no God. I don't care." This is going on. God is order-supplier. But our philosophy is God is not order-supplier; we are order-carriers of God. Anukulyena krsnanusilanam bhaktir uttama [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Just like Arjuna became. He became carrier of order of Krsna. He did not like to fight, to kill the family members, but when he understood that Krsna wants it, then he..., "Yes." Karisye vacanam tava [Bg. 18.73]. Find out this verse, nasto mohah smrtir labhda tvat-prasadan madhusudanah.
Nalinikantha:
nasto mohah smrtir labdha
tvat-prasadan mayacyuta
sthito 'smi gata-sandehah
karisye vacanam tava
[Bg. 18.73]
Prabhupada: Tava. Sthito 'smi gata-sandehah: "Now I am situated in the real position, without any doubt." What is that position? Karisye vacanam tava: "I shall carry out your order. I'll not ask you to become my order-supplier, but I shall carry out your order." And this is perfection of Gita knowledge. And he did it. He did not like to kill his family members, but he did it. He killed Bhismadeva. He killed his teacher, Dronacarya. He killed his nephews, brothers, everyone. Karisye vacanam tava: "You want it? All right, never mind. Even though I don't want it, I must do it." That is Krsna consciousness. Karisye vacanam tava. Anukulyena krsnanu-silanam bhaktir uttama [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. Anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. "I should not place any motive before God. I shall carry out the motive of God" -- that is bhakti. So what is that confi...? Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65].
Nalinikantha: Mam evaisyasi satyam te pratijane priyo 'si me: "Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me."
Prabhupada: Now, if He is ordering to become His devotee, how can I try to become another God, competitor? This is the folly, and for this we are suffering. He asked him, "You become My devotee." And I want to become another God, competitor. And therefore we are suffering. We cannot become another God. That is not possible. But artificially you are trying. Therefore you are suffering. Anything you try artificially, you'll suffer. If you try for a thing artificially, then what is the result? Result will be suffering and disappointment. Therefore sastra says, tasyaiva hetoh prayeteta kovidah. Don't try for such things... You have tried all through in different forms of life. You have failed. So don't try for that. But try to become servant of God. Then your life will be successful. Because in the material world the endeavor is how to become God in different varieties: how to become president, how to become minister, how to become master, how to become very strong man, very wealthy man, very beautiful man, so on, so on, so on, up to -- when everything fails -- then how to become God. When everything fails, then, ultimately, "Now I shall become God." The same disease is there, how to become big, now the biggest. And that is the same disease in a different form. Therefore, Caitanya-caritamrta, it is said, krsna-bhakta-niskama, ataeva santa, bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kami-'asanta' [Cc. Madhya 19.149]. Bhukti means material enjoyment. Karmis... Just like ordinary men, they are working so hard day and night. This airplane is running here and there, (loud airplane passing over) day and night, carrying karmis. So this is bhukti. How to enjoy this material world fully, this is called bhukti. So because they are after bhukti, how there can be peace? He has to work very hard. And mukti, those who are jnanis, they are trying to become one with God. So that is also very difficult. But still, there are so many sadhanas. That is also... But the desire is there. The karmis are desiring to enjoy material world, and the jnanis are desiring to become the supreme. That is also another desire. So bhukti mukti siddhi. Yogis, they are trying to achieve some mystic power. And if you attain some mystic power, without airplane if you can fly... The yogis can do that. Or if you can walk on the water... The yogis can do it. This is called laghima-siddhi, to become light, very light. So that... By yoga practice you can do that. So anima, laghima, siddhi, prapti, mahima -- there are so many siddhis. So siddhi-kami, they are also desiring something. And the jnanis, they are also desiring something, and karmis, they are also desiring something. The bhakta, he does not desire anything. Therefore peacefulness is for him, because he does not desire anything. He does not ask God anything. That is sunyam. Anyabhilasita-sunyam [BRS 1.1.11] -- no motive. That "I am becoming a devotee for this purpose" -- no, that is not pure devotee. "I am eternal servant of God, so it is my duty to serve Him, that's all." That is peace. And so long he'll desire, then he'll not have any peace. That is not possible.
Indian lady: This siddhis, do they harm sometimes humanity with their siddhis also?
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Indian lady: With the siddhis... One who has attained all these siddhis, all these powers, do they harm humanity sometimes?
Prabhupada: Anything without devotion to the Lord is harmful to the humanity. Anything, either karmi or jnani or siddhi, it is all harmful, because all these things will keep him aloof from God. His mission is that he is separated from God. His mission should be how to go back to home, back to Godhead. So all these things -- bhukti, mukti, siddhi -- will keep him aloof from God. Therefore it is harmful. It will not allow him to go nearer to God, and that is harmful. That is the greatest harm. Being aloof from God, he's suffering. So these bhukti, mukti, siddhi will keep him aloof from God. He'll falsely think that "I am God." Yogis, if they can show some mystic yogic power, then naturally foolish people will think him that "Oh, here is God." And he's satisfied with that. He's not God, but foolish people will adore him as God, and he's satisfied. That means he keeps himself aloof from God. After this mystic power is gone, then he is no more valuable. So anything which keeps one aloof from God, that is harmful.
Indian lady: But if they misuse these mystic powers, then they cannot stay as a mystic.
Prabhupada: And why he's after mystic power? What is the use of mystic power. Suppose if you have got this mystic power -- you can walk over the water -- so what benefit you'll get? There is a boat also. It can walk on the river or on the ocean Does it mean his all questions are solved? Suppose you can walk over the water. So I cannot walk. I take a boat and pay him four annas. So what is the difference between you and me? It is a question of four annas, that's all (laughter). So why do you endeavor for this rascaldom, and make some jugglery to the foolish people? If you have to walk over the water, you can pay four annas to the boatman and can do it. Why for this so many mystic power?
Bharadraja: Kaitava.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Bharadraja: This is all kaitava-dharma.
Prabhupada: (laughs) Yes, kaitava. You do not get any more benefit. After practicing yoga for ten years, twenty years, if you learn this art how to walk over water, so you can show the magic to the foolish man. But intelligent man will say, "It is a question of four annas. I can walk. Why shall I waste my time, twenty years, for learning this art?"
Indian lady: Sometimes these mystic powers, they use on human beings...
Prabhupada: This is one of the mystic powers which amaze people, foolish people.
Indian lady: But they can use on human beings also...
Prabhupada: What human being?
Indian lady: In their life or...
Prabhupada: No, no, suppose human being learns how to walk over water. Is that the solution of all problems? So what is the benefit to the human being? Suppose you have this mystic yogic power, you can walk over the water, and you teach the whole human society how to walk over the water. (laughter) What is the benefit there?
Indian lady: But for some creation of something or so many things they show...
Prabhupada: That means you have no clear idea, "something, something." Actually there is no benefit. You do not know what is benefit.
Indian lady: Can anybody create anything with this mystic power, any idol of God or any idol of devotee or anything, and then turn them to..., just a good mission to turn them to God?
Prabhupada: What is that mission?
Indian lady: Well, er...
Prabhupada: Practically come to the... Suppose if you learn how to walk, or how to fly in the air. Nowadays they are flying, the big, big airplane flying. They have not learned this mystic power. By machine they are doing that. Suppose if you fly by mystic power from here, Los Angeles, to Bombay or Nairobi, and another man flys over by the plane. Then where is the difference? It is a question of pounds or dollars. So what benefit do we get? Why do you give so much importance, who is flying or walking on the water? Better utilize the time to realize God. Srama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. This is called in the sastra, that anything you do, if it does not awaken your God consciousness, then it is srama eva hi kevalam. It is simply working for nothing, waste of time. Srama eva hi kevalam. (aside:) Hmm, give him some prasada. And others, what about? No, you can take this... Prasada. Others, them also. (Hindi)
dharmah svanusthitah pumsam
visvaksena-kathasu yah
notpadayed yadi ratim
srama eva hi kevalam
[SB 1.2.8]
If we do not awaken our God consciousness, anything you do, that is all waste of time. That is wanted in the human form of life, to revive our God consciousness. That is the most important business. So, any other questions?
Arnold Weiss: I do, but I can't take all your evening. It would be unfair of me if I did, but I have a lot of questions.
Prabhupada: So we shall also go. Distribute this prasadam to everyone.
Devotees: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada. [break]
Prabhupada: If you cannot do anything, you can ask anybody, "Become a devotee of God." Three words: "Just become a devotee of God." Anyone can, even a child can do. It is so easy. Ya idam paramam guhyam mad-bhaktesv abhidhasyati [Bg 18.68]. Krsna says that "Anyone who preaches this gospel, he is the dearmost person to Me." So what is that gospel? Krsna says, sarva-dharman partiyajya mam ekam saranam vraja: "You just surrender unto Me." So if we go to every home, every person, and say "Just you surrender to God, Krsna," that is our preaching.
Devotees: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles
H OM E
© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International. Used with permission.
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From: Pragosh das
To:
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:01 PM
Subject:
Srila Prabhupada speaks on: The Next Life
Prabhupada: Good. No, now we are book selling nicely. I think our settlement.... (?) Krsna has arranged everything cautiously and not extravagantly. You go on. Everything will be all right. There will be no scarcity. Yavad-artha-prayojanam. Our parents taught us, mother, if there was a grain of rice on the ground and it is touched with feet, "Oh, you take it." We were taught like that.
Jayatirtha: Nothing should be wasted.
Prabhupada: Krsna has sent you His grain. You cannot waste it. This is Krsna consciousness. Live that way. And Krsna is providing so much facilities for becoming Krsna conscious, and why should we deviate and spoil this life, take the risk of again going into the cycle of birth and death? Commonsense affair. We have got the good, greatest opportunity to solve this problem of repetition of birth. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg. 4.9]. And only for little sense gratification we are going to sacrifice so great opportunity of life? This much education is wanted. Na sadhu manye yata atmano 'yam. Eh? Find out the verse, Fifth Canto. Fifth Canto, Fifth Chapter. Na sadhu manye yata atmano 'yam asann api klesada asa dehah. Nunam pramattah kurute vikarma yad indriya-pritaya aprnoti [SB 5.5.4]. Very bad civilization. Mad civilization, pramattah. Simply for little sense gratification they are prepared to take so much risk. Next life you may become cat, dog or a small grass or a tree by laws of nature. So nunam pramattah. Is it Fifth Canto?
Bhagavan: Rsabhadeva.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavan: Instruction to His sons.
Hari-sauri: What was that? Yasya?
Prabhupada: Eh? Nunam pramattah.
Hari-sauri: Nonam.
Prabhupada: N-u-n-a-m.
Jayatirtha: Nunam pramattah kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. Right one?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayatirtha:
yad indriya-pritaya aprnoti
na sadhu manye yata atmano 'yam
asann api klesada asa dehah
[SB 5.5.4]
"When a person considers sense gratification the aim of life, he certainly becomes mad after materialistic living and engages in all kinds of sinful activity. He does not know that due to his past misdeeds he has already received a body which, although temporary, is the cause of his misery. Actually the living entity should not have taken on a material body, but he has been awarded the material body for sense gratification. Therefore I think that it is not befitting an intelligent man to involve himself again in the activities of sense gratification, by which he perpetually gets material bodies one after another." Purport? "Begging, borrowing and stealing to live for sense gratification is condemned in this verse because such consciousness leads one to a dark, hellish condition. The four sinful activities are illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. These are the means by which one gets another material body that is full of miseries."
Prabhupada: They do not know. When you can say, they'll think, "What these people are talking?" They are so dull-brained. They cannot understand anything. We are taking it, immediately accepted. It is so serious. And you, on the general public, if you speak? "All nonsense they are speaking." Dull brain. By eating meat and intoxication they have lost their all human brain tissues. Such a condition. Still, some professors receiving and doing some applause. That is. Otherwise who is understanding? The brain is so dull in the modern world.
Jayatirtha: It's called a vicious cycle. Because the brain is so dull, therefore they can't understand how to stop performing these activities; and because they don't stop performing these activities, therefore the brain remains dull. In this way they are caught up.
Prabhupada: No, pramattah, that we can see, pramattah, mad. And everyone, especially in the Western country, so many madmen. The hippies, their whole sect-mad. Pramattah. Then so-called businessmen, so-called scientist, so-called philosopher -- everyone is mad. And kurute vikarma, all sinful activities, especially the slaughterhouse, horrible. Everyone is taking share of these sinful activities. They're fighting amongst themselves, this party, that party, communist party, fascist party, then barking in the United Nation and so on, so on. All mad. At least we must know it. Or we are talking nonsense; they are all right. What is your conviction?
Bhagavan: We are seeing that more and more we are having to preach to younger and younger people.
Prabhupada: Those who are innocent.
Bhagavan: Yes. In the colleges even it is very difficult.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Bhagavan: In the colleges now. Before, it was not so difficult. Now they are becoming...
Prabhupada: Spoiled, all spoiled. All spoiled.
Bhagavan: Now many devotees are younger, sixteen, seventeen years old, not so spoiled.
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore Prahlada Maharaja said, kaumara acaret prajno dharman bhagavatan iha: [SB 7.6.1] "From the very beginning." How they are spoiling the opportunity in the whole educational system, social system, political system. Let us do our duty. What can be done? Is there any purport?
Jayatirtha: Yes, I read part of it. I'll go on. "In the Vedas it is said, asango hy ayam purusah. The living entity is not really connected with this material world, but due to his tendency to enjoy the material senses, he is put into the material condition. One should perfect his life by associating with devotees. He should not become further implicated in the material body."
Prabhupada: Therefore Krsna consciousness, that "Stop further implication." Nunam pramattah kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. What is the next verse?
Jayatirtha: Parabhavas tavad abodha-jato.
Prabhupada: Parabhavas tavad abodha-jato.
Jayatirtha Prabhupada: Yavan na jijnasata atma-tattvam...
Jayatirtha: Yavat kriyas tavad idam mano vai karmatmakam yena sarira-bandhah
Prabhupada: So long one will remain a karmi, he'll get body. And what body? There is no guarantee. That will depend on your karma. But you'll get a body. So read it. It is very important. Again.
Jayatirtha: "As long as one does not inquire about the spiritual values of life, one is defeated and subjected to miseries arising from ignorance."
Prabhupada: Everything, whatever he's doing -- the so-called nonsense advancement of civilization is defeat, simply defeat. What is your advancement? You are completely under the control of the laws of material nature. What is your progress? So yavan na jijnasata atma-tattvam. Only this hodgepodge. They are wasting so much time going to the Mars, spending so much money. But there is no inquiry, atma-tattvam: "What I am? What is my goal of life?"
Bhagavan: They are zero.
Prabhupada: Such zero. Apasyatam atma-tattvam grhesu grha-medhinam [SB 2.1.2]. Atma-tattva, there is no...
Bhagavan: They are thinking that they have become advanced because they have become atheists. They have let religion go. They say that religion was a...
Prabhupada: But what you have gained out of it, rascal? Now, there is no water. Bring water and become atheist. Why do you see: "When there will be water?" Bring water by scientific method. Why you are looking on the sky: "Whether there is any cloud."
Hari-sauri: Set up a drought committee.
Prabhupada: They have done?
Bhagavan: In France there was a big drought, terrible drought. Many animals died. So the president of the country made a speech, and all he could say in his speech was that people should try to use less water. (laughter)
Prabhupada: Oh. There was another caricature, India. So there was some drought, the same. So there was some, what is called, representation: "And there is no water. We are suffering. This is the difficulty." "Yes, we are taking step, but next week you'll have television." Advancement, television. Because there was no television, so this is the advancement. Next week they have television. As if television will solve the problem. All mudhas, rascals, are very horrible condition. Chant Hare Krsna. There is no other.
Jayatirtha: Tamala Krsna once published an article in the Back to Godhead. The title was "You Cannot Eat Nuts and Bolts."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayatirtha: It was very nice.
Prabhupada: That is my word. (laughter)
Jayatirtha: We always take everything from you, and then we take the credit.
Prabhupada: Nuts and bolts, tire tube, gas, this, that.... Where is food? (laughter) "So just kill the animals. That's all. You'll get food." And how long you'll go on? The animals will.... And no more animals die? Then what they'll do? Animal, after all, they live on grains and grass, but one set or two set or three set you can kill and eat. The next...? Then you have to eat dry grass. It is a wrong civilization. Duskrtina. There is no water. They are flying to the Mars planet. What is the Mars planet news? Any news?
Jayatirtha: What is the latest news from the Mars planet, do you know?
Bhagavan: Mars planet. No. They are taking samples of the soil.
Prabhupada: That's all. Same story.
Bhagavan: In the moon, when they finished, after they concluded there was no life, they dropped a bomb.
Jayatirtha: Dropped a bomb?
Bhagavan: Yes, they made an explosion, just to see what would happen.
Prabhupada: You can drop many bombs in the Sahara desert. Who cares? Who cares for that? (laughter)
Jayatirtha: Prabhupada said they were actually in Arizona. This Mars capsule has landed in Arizona.
Prabhupada: Yes. Why bomb? "Grapes are sour."
Bhagavan: To measure something.
Prabhupada: Whatever they measure, they are useless. What they'll gain by dropping a bomb?
Jayatirtha: Just another foolishness.
Prabhupada: But nobody is questioning that "Why you are wasting money in this way? You have already failure, the moon planet."
Bhagavan: They are hoping against hope. That is all they have. [break]
Prabhupada: Let us not be discouraged. Let us go on with our studies, activities, Krsna consciousness.
Bhagavan: Seeing their foolishness makes one more convinced; it does not discourage.
Prabhupada: Yes. This failure was assured ten years ago by me.
Jayatirtha: Yes, you predicted it.
Prabhupada: Yes, but still, I am saying, "This will be all failure." And still, they are hopeful. My Guru Maharaja is very pleased. As soon as a book comes out, he is pleased.
Jayatirtha: Especially one so beautiful.
Prabhupada: He was lamenting that "These men, they did not make, publish any number of books. They are simply after this stone and bricks." He condemned. He was very, very sorry. So I thought that I must take a risk. And he's pleased.
Bhagavan: So now you have books and temples.
Prabhupada: Yes, temple is automatically.
Jayatirtha: Without fighting, you've got so many temples.
Prabhupada: No, I never stressed on temple. I was engaged in publishing the Back to Godhead. Whatever I could do, I did it because I took it very seriously that he is very sorry that these things were not done. He said that "There will be fire in this Gaudiya Math." Agun jvalbe, he said. Amari taci loka kichui boi kakrayebo (?): "If I can, I shall sell these marbles of this temple and convert them into books." That was his ambition. He started a very nice press and this Tirtha Maharaja sold it.
Jayatirtha: Sold it?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavan: The press.
Prabhupada: He's not representing Guru.... "Better let's have money for fight in the court."
Jayatirtha: Sometimes I'm sorry that my name also has this word in it.
Prabhupada: You are Jaya-tirtha. You are victorious. Now whatever is being done, it is by his blessing. Let us work sincerely. Things will be all.... Otherwise it is humanly impossible. It is by his grace.
Jayatirtha: George was also commenting on that, how one man could have written so many books.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayatirtha: He could not even read them all, what to speak of writing them all.
Prabhupada:
mukam karoti vacalam
pangum langhayate girim
yat-krpa tam aham vande
sri-gurum dina-taranam
Mukam karoti vacalam: "A dumb is a great orator." Mukam karoti vacalam. Pangum langhayate girim: "The lame man, lame man is jumping over the mountain." Mukam karoti vacalam pangum langhayate girim. Yat-krpa: "By the mercy of guru it is possible." So let us cooperate and do this business. Higher authority will be pleased, and that is our success. Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah **. If the higher authorities are pleased, then Krsna is pleased. That is our success. What about that French professor who has written an elaborate review?
Hari-sauri: The one that mentions about Aurobindo...
Bhagavan: I sent you this summer.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavan: Those two...
Hari-sauri: Yes, Prabhupada's just asking about him.
Bhagavan: Oh, yes, he's waiting to see you.
Prabhupada: Invite him to come to India.
Jayatirtha: Jaya.
Prabhupada: He likes me.
Bhagavan: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: He has studied very nicely. Otherwise how he could catch Aurobindo, a doctor of...? In a scholarly way he has attacked him.
Bhagavan: Do you have that in English? I gave you in English.
Hari-sauri: Yes, he got that one. It's in the files.
Prabhupada: Apramana.(?) Actually, what is this? My Guru Maharaja: "He's a bokaloka." My Guru Maharaja used to say all these men, "All rascals." I was at that time coming him(?). But he said, all, "Everyone rascals." He told me, "Rabindranath Tagore and..., bokaloka."
Hari-sauri: What's the exact meaning of that word?
Prabhupada: Bokaloka means just like a foolish boy. Bokaloka.
Bhagavan: Childish.
Prabhupada: Childish, with no sense. Actually that is the fact. All these rascals, they have no sense. Simply they bluff because they have no real knowledge. Mayayapahrta-jnanah. That's a fact. If one, anyone, does not know Krsna, then he's a boka-loka. Immediately take it for granted, bokaloka. They take that we are very sectarian, but that is a fact.
Bhagavan: Our philosophy is that everyone else is wrong.
Prabhupada: May be true to some extent, but they do not know the ultimate truth. That they do not know. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan [Bg. 7.19]. He understands, vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah [Bg. 7.19]. That requires many, many births, to come to that conclusion. Vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyah [Bg. 15.15]. This Krsna says. Mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "There is no more superior than Me." Aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. He explains to everyone, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg. 18.66]. That is the.... There is the ultimate person. You call Him Krsna or something, but you must know Him. Isvarah paramah, there must be. Father's father's father's father's father's.... Who is the original father? There must be. Where is the wrong in this statement? So you find out the supreme father, but He has no father; He is the Absolute. Sarva-karana.... Anadir adih: "He has no beginning, but He is the beginning." Anadir adir govindah sarva-karana-karanam [Bs. 5.1]. So, Bhagavan may carry one letter that "I am very sorry. On account of my health failure, I could not go to see you, that professor and all devotees, and I am very, very sorry for this, but, I humbly invite you, come to India, and we shall be very glad to sit together," like that.
Jayatirtha: I'm sure they'll all understand.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavan: You're planning to leave Wednesday?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavan: Maybe you'll be better tomorrow.
Prabhupada: Tomorrow?
Bhagavan: Maybe you will be better.
Prabhupada: No, that is happening. Sometimes I feel all right.
Hari-sauri: But then as soon as Prabhupada does any activity, he immediately becomes exhausted, just to go downstairs.
Prabhupada: Yesterday evening I was thinking, "Now I am feeling all right. Tomorrow I shall go for morning walk," like that. (laughs) That is due to my practice. So the palace is prepared now?
Bhagavan: First class. I think your quarters are the best. Very confortable. Your bathroom is all redone. You have a nice separate bedroom, separate bathroom, and a very nice, almost this big. It is very sunny.
Prabhupada: Sunny.
Bhagavan: Very sunny. All day long the sun.
Prabhupada: It is alluring. (laughter)
Jayatirtha: Yes, Bhagavan is trying to allure you, I think.
Bhagavan: And we are having Deity installation also. The Krsna-Balarama Deity is there. They're very beautiful, extremely. And we have a new Vyasasana. I had it made in Italy with all marble, temple. Anyway...
Jayatirtha: You can send him pictures in India. I was going to ask you, Srila Prabhupada. If I wanted to install Gaura-Nitai Deities also, like the ones in Baltimore and this farm, here also, along with the Radha-Krsna Deities, without two altars...
Prabhupada: Here?
Jayatirtha: Yes. Whether or not that's all right.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayatirtha: The devotees very much like to worship Gaura-Nitai along with Radha-Krsna.
Bhagavan: You are wanting sun?
Prabhupada: Yes, sun.
Hari-sauri: No problems.
Jayatirtha: No stairs.
Hari-sauri: No stairs.
Prabhupada: No, stairs, I may not come down.
Jayatirtha: That's the problem. Once he's up, he can't come down.
Prabhupada: No.
Jayatirtha: That means he can't go outside.
Prabhupada: I.... Come down is not so very difficult.
Bhagavan: We have already a palanquin to carry you up.
Prthu-putra: We have elevator also, no?
Bhagavan: Yes, we have elevator there also.
Hari-sauri: Is it working?
Bhagavan: Well, it's being fixed right now, but if I.... But we have a palanquin to carry up the stairs. It's actually warm there, very warm during the day, and your room is extremely warm because the sun crosses it all day long, and there won't be anybody to bother you. All the devotees are out of the castle. They're all in little houses all around. And it's so big that you won't feel cramped.
Prabhupada: So I shall feel hungry also?
Bhagavan: Hungry? No, you ate good there last year. You ate very well there last year.
Prabhupada: No, I like it. It is very nice place.
Prthu-putra: The air is good too.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Prthu-putra: The air, the atmosphere, is good.
Bhagavan: I don't know. I was thinking the trip.... We have that big Mercedes limousine. You rode in it last year. It was very comfortable, and the ride, I don't think you found it so difficult, did you? Last year.
Prabhupada: No.
Jayatirtha: This year, by the time he got to Bury Place, he was completely exhausted, Bhagavan. Half an hour's drive.
Bhagavan: Hm.
Prabhupada: That due to the staircase.
Jayatirtha: But by the time you sat on the Vyasasana there you were already looking very tired, what to speak of...
Bhagavan: Paris has elevator.
Prabhupada: Paris, I know, that I have told.
Jayatirtha: (laughs) He told me that when we got to the top of the stairs in Bury Place. He said, "In Paris there is a lift."
Prabhupada: Ah, yes.
Jayatirtha: In all respects Paris is superior. (laughs)
Bhagavan: I was just thinking that if you wanted warm weather, it's very warm during the day, and the air is very clean. It's not so dusty.
Prabhupada: No, in the village there must be.
Bhagavan: The trouble is if you get sick along the way.
Jayatirtha: On the way back from the airport we had to stop twice.
Bhagavan: Anyway, that trip to India is also long, eight hours. It's also long.
Hari-sauri: Thing is Prabhupada is thinking that if he has to go to India anyway, so he may as well go straight there.
Bhagavan: The thing is you may be bothered in India. There are so many people who come, even though you say no. Even though you say no, there's always people.
Prabhupada: No, the present problem is that I cannot go out.
Bhagavan: So that we have.... We have nice palanquin. Remember when you came two years ago, we had a palanquin and we carried you?
Prthu-putra: In this engagement, in the Philosophical (?) Society.
Bhagavan: You spoke at one society, and we carried you up a long stair in a very comfortable palanquin.
Prabhupada: Where?
Bhagavan: In Paris. You gave an engagement at the top of a very big building, and there was no lift, so we built a palanquin and we carried you.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavan: So that...
Prabhupada: That library, something?
Bhagavan: Yes.
Hari-sauri: The other thing is, though, that if you go to Paris, then it means you have to go up the steps to get into the airplane, not just in Paris.... At least in London you have to, and then again you have to do it in Paris, and then again you'll have to do it in Tehran.
Bhagavan: Yes, but he doesn't have to.... He can stay there for a while. He doesn't have to go to Tehran.
Hari-sauri: No, you can't fly direct to India from Paris.
Jayatirtha: He has to stop somewhere along the way. Otherwise...
Bhagavan: We're hoping he'll rapidly recover.
Jayatirtha: Well, Srila Prabhupada is not expecting it at this point. Of course, we're all praying for it.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Jayatirtha: I said we're all praying for your rapid recovery, but whether or not...
Prabhupada: So why you did not come yesterday?
Bhagavan: I was putting together your Vyasasana. (laughs) All night long I stayed up. Also our printer from Italy, he is wanting to present you with the Krsna book. He has had his men working seven days a week, composing. They are composing. It is going to be a very nice book. We had one article in the paper. We went to a book fair, and thousands of publishers.... So the article they wrote on us was that "The association for Krsna consciousness produces luxurious books."
Prabhupada: Why not? Our Krsna is most luxurious person. He is never poverty-stricken. Always with gopis, cowherd boys, killing all demons.
Jayatirtha: Harikesa Maharaja and I were discussing last night about your travel plans, and we were debating on what was actually the best place for you to go. So someone was saying Tehran, someone was saying Paris farm, like this, but the point that came out was that as far as health is concerned, India is not the best place for you to go at all.
Prabhupada: India.
Jayatirtha: Not the best place. However, the main point is that you want to go there. That was what was felt by the devotees who were discussing, that you want to go to India immediately and that you will feel more comfortable by going to India immediately. That was what was being discussed. Although for health purposes that may not actually be the best.
Hari-sauri: For us India is not very healthy. But for Prabhupada it's the best place.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Hari-sauri: I said for us India is not so healthy, but for yourself it's the best place.
Bhagavan: Prabhupada also got sick in India. Remember? Two years ago in Vrndavana.
Prabhupada: Vrndavana.
Jayatirtha: Exactly this time, two years ago.
Bhagavan: Anyway, I think the stair problem is not such a big problem.
Jayatirtha: No, that is not an insurmountable problem.
Bhagavan: There are three hundred devotees who want to carry you. But I mean there you will not have people coming if you want to rest. There are no.... There are only planned people who would come. But there won't be hundreds of Indians coming to see you. And you have.... Right next to your quarters there's your own private kitchen also, so everything's very close at hand. All your servants quarters are.... That whole floor is.... Actually the whole castle is empty, so there's no noise.
Jayatirtha: It may be very nice for you there.
Bhagavan: Your quarters.
Prabhupada: We shall go immediately?
Jayatirtha: I think that, Srila Prabhupada, you should not feel obliged in any way to go. Only whatever you think is best for your health condition.
Prabhupada: No, obliged, I am always obliged to you. That's a fact. Yes.
Jayatirtha: We are only obliged to you. That's a fact. That is the actual fact. It must be decided, though, what you think is best for your health situation.
Prabhupada: Whatever you decide.
Bhagavan: Prabhupada, the only thing I'm just a little concerned is just if you have difficulty in the car. But if that won't be too difficult, I really think that this is ideal. Your quarters are really first class, extremely wonderful. And the only other thing is at night it's cool, but that's not so bad either.
Prabhupada: No, at night cool will be good.
Bhagavan: And in the morning it is warm at ten o'clock.
Prabhupada: So kitchen is (indistinct).
Bhagavan: Yes. You have a cook here? Your temple was cooking?
Jayatirtha: No, Arundhati is cooking. I think Palika should come? Palika should not come for cooking?
Prabhupada: She has come?
Jayatirtha: Should she not come? She wants to come.
Bhagavan: There are so many cooks. Malati is there, and we have.... You've never had problem with cooking in France before.
Hari-sauri: Harikesa can cook also.
Bhagavan: We all think, though, that whenever you are feeling sick and you go to India, there's always so many people who see you anyway. I remember when you were sick in Vrndavana and Brahmananda and I were there. Even though you were sick, at least fifteen people saw you every day, coming in and out constantly, and then you had to sit up.
Jayatirtha: Actually all of us agreed yesterday when we were discussing it that as far as health purposes is concerned, we do not think it is a good idea for you to go to India immediately.
Hari-sauri: We argued for a half hour against going to India, but in the end, you decided that you wanted to go to Bombay immediately.
Bhagavan: But I mean, if you have to risk that eight-hour plane ride, that's much more difficult than going to the farm. The farm is only three hours in a comfortable car.
Hari-sauri: It's not just that. It's the problem that you have to fly from France to somewhere else and then from somewhere else back to India. I said the main problem is that if you do go to France, then it means a great deal more traveling than would be involved in simply flying to India, because you'd have to travel back and forth to the Paris farm. Then you would also have to stay in Tehran, up and down like that in the plane, and then again fly to Bombay.
Bhagavan: But he doesn't have to stay in the farm for just nine days. He can stay there for long time.
Prabhupada: If the health suits, I can stay there. If the health improves, I can stay.
Prthu-putra: Air India is direct from Geneva.
Prabhupada: I shall not stay...
Prthu-putra: I came back from Bombay to Geneva by direct plane.
Prabhupada: Yes, there is plane.
Prthu-putra: I didn't have to stop in Tehran, and Geneva is very near.
Bhagavan: I think you can recover there. The atmosphere is so nice.
Prthu-putra: From the farm Geneva is the same distance than to Paris.
Bhagavan: I mean, more or less whenever you get sick everyone thinks that India is not really the best place, because you're always obliged to so many people. Whether you are feeling like it or not, they always come in the room.
Jayatirtha: And they are generally.... I know this, that these.... I like Indian people, but these Indian people are not very conscious of your position. They think that you're just another guru. Many of them do. Of course, some of them appreciate you.
Prabhupada: Indian mentality is that "If we see one saintly person and offer obeisances, we get some blessing for our material..."
Hari-sauri: They're very selfish.
Jayatirtha: In this way, I don't think they really appreciate your...
Prabhupada: Asirvada, asirvada.
Jayatirtha: Last night, one man came with his family. They wanted to have your darsana. I said, "Prabhupada is in bed. He's resting." He was insisting, he said, "I do not want to hear him speak, I simply want to see him." I said, "He's in bed. You can't go into his bedroom. How is it possible?" "No, that is all right. I will just go in, and I will see him." (laughter) I said, "What is this? Get out."
Hari-sauri: I remember when we left Bombay, you'd been giving darsana for four and a half hours on the roof.
Prabhupada: What is the water there?
Bhagavan: Oh, yes, we have our own water.
Prabhupada: Creek water?
Bhagavan: Underground. It's very nice. Very tasty and light. It's not heavy water.
Jayatirtha: It's a fact that on the whole, this farm is a wonderful place. I was there a couple of times. I very much liked it.
Prabhupada: Spring water?
Bhagavan: Yes.
Prabhupada: All right, let us go.
Hari-sauri: Tomorrow?
Prabhupada: Any time.
Hari-sauri: As soon as we can book a flight.
Bhagavan: We can arrange things.
Jayatirtha: Bhagavan, we should.... Couldn't we somehow arrange it so that Prabhupada doesn't have to go through the heavy traffic to the airport?
Hari-sauri: We'll have to see what time they're flying.
Jayatirtha: Every hour. All right, so you're sure that this is...
Prabhupada: No, I want some nice water, digestive. Let us see there.
Jayatirtha: Here the water is not good?
Prabhupada: No, no, I don't say it is not good, but...
Bhagavan: This is our own water; it's not city water with so many chemicals in it.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayatirtha: What about that bottle water, mineral water?
Bhagavan: He can have that too.
Prabhupada: No, I know.
Prthu-putra: France is the best place for mineral water.
Jayatirtha: In France they have many very nice waters.
Prabhupada: Mineral water.
Bhagavan: Prabhupada knows. He used to sell Vichy water.
Prabhupada: Vichy water. But I don't like. Bottled water I don't like.
Bhagavan: No, we have fresh water all the time. And you have hot water in bathroom.
Jayatirtha: I knew Bhagavan would come, and this would happen.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Jayatirtha: I never thought that you would go to India. I knew that Bhagavan would come and you would go to Paris. (laughs)
Prabhupada: No, if I improve my health, I shall stay there for some time.
Jayatirtha: Actually, it's a fact that you...
Prabhupada: Everywhere is my home. Not that India.... If I am attached to India, then how I am sannyasi? (laughter)
Bhagavan: And every other day I will give you a new book. (laughter)
Prabhupada: Where is?
Hari-sauri: You have to keep it, too, when you promise.
Prabhupada: All right.
Bhagavan: So we can plan that. Thank you very much, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna.
Devotees: All glories to Srila Prabhupada. [break]
Prabhupada: Western people, they are not only fool but misbehaved. Pascime loka saba mudha anarya.
Hari-sauri: And the further West you go, the worse they become.
Prabhupada: In India, from Bengal you go Western side. They are very filthy. And go more, more, more Western-filthy, filthy, filthy, filthy.
Harikesa: Pakistan is the worst. Karachi, I heard, is the worst city in the world almost.
Prabhupada: Srimad-bhagavatam amalam puranam.
Harikesa: These books are exquisite. The books they make in France are just marvelous.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: It was printed in Italy, I think, but this here is so nice.
Prabhupada: Yes, embossed. I think our other books are not like that.
Harikesa: Of course, in France this is very much appreciated because the people are like that.
Prabhupada: Fancy.
Harikesa: Yes.
Hari-sauri: There's big competition now between our French and Spanish and English, between our publishing, French, Spanish and English. They are always competing. And the Germans also.
Harikesa: I think the French are on top though.
Hari-sauri: Their French Bhagavad-gita, the French one, when it came out, it's so much better than any other version we've had. Every time they bring a new book out, it seems to be an advancement on everything else.
Harikesa: Yogesvara is very...
Prabhupada: Oh, he is very expert, very enthusiastic. His wife is...
Harikesa: Very nice.
Hari-sauri: They included a number of photos also. In the picture sections they've headed each section with a photo. There's one of Vrndavana temple. They have a photo of your room in Radha-Damodara.
Prabhupada: Oh! Where it is?
Hari-sauri: In one of the sections here.
Harikesa: I have to go in and do some more.... [break]
Prabhupada: Right in here.
Hari-sauri: Through that window you could see Rupa Gosvami's samadhi. And for those two rooms they were charging five rupees a month?
Prabhupada: Yes. These rooms were broken. So they told me that "You can repair these, and whatever you like, you can give." So I thought, "Don't need much space." "Pay me if..." I know, before me there was a tenant in that other room. He was paying three rupees. So I thought, "Two rooms, but I have spent money. So I'll give him five." Now I am giving them ten rupees.
Hari-sauri: To retain it.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: Sometimes the devotees go down there and clean out the rooms, and they have kirtana there sometimes. I think this is the first book that someone included this photo.
Prabhupada: Yes. It was very calm and quiet. And people used to offer obeisances from outside because they knew. Practically everyone knew me. So they used to offer...
Hari-sauri: You were very well known in Vrndavana before you came?
Prabhupada: Not very well known, but people knew me.
Hari-sauri: Because you were writing or...?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: Or because of your ambition to come to the West?
Prabhupada: No, at that time there was no such thing. I was living there, retired man.
Hari-sauri: So when you went to Vrndavana, you'd given up the idea of coming to the West or...?
Prabhupada: No, coming to the West, the idea was there, but I was planning how to go.
Hari-sauri: Oh, nothing concrete was there.
Prabhupada: So that idea was there, but how to go there, how to preach there, how to take some books, how to bring them, everything alone...
Hari-sauri: So as soon as you had some books, then you were...
Prabhupada: Yes. Then I decided. Everything was being dictated by superior.
Hari-sauri: I was told that one day you were told by Rupa Gosvami that you must go.
Prabhupada: But that was open secret. Everyone knew. This antique photo is very dull.
Hari-sauri: Yes.
Prabhupada: Where this photo was?
Hari-sauri: I don't know. (end)
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London
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© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International. Used with permission.
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